US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Phoenix]

East,

The full and complete Nicolau award was part of the Documents given to the Jury. It would appear that they read it. Have you. Keep in mind that your idea of fairness of the Nicolau award or anything else in this world is not the final word. And not a test that all things must pass to be regarded as "Fair". As you are not living up to the obligation of keeping your word. I would recalculate how often you throw around the word "Integrity".

Flip

East's, or anyone else's, opinion of "fair and equitable" is truly meaningless in regard to Nicolau. However that was never the rub. It was ALAP who chose to effectively assert that the phrase "fair and equitable" was in no way a dispositive phrase. It was entirely meaningless since ALPA washed their hands of any authority or responsibility to ensure an outcome that accorded to the phrase.

The only time at which East's assessment of "fair and equitable" was of any consequence is when he asked the question in regard to the ballot of April 17th.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Its not a theory, and it certainly is the issue that the court has not honestly come to grips with.

Your theory included a part about "a" union abrogating it's responsibility and whether it could then change it's mind. That is not the case here, as I said - "a" union abrogated it's responsibility (your words, not mine) while another union wants to un-abrogate the first union's responsibility. Two different situations.

As I said, ALPA's "abrogation" has been tested in court and found acceptable - even necessary to avoid any conflict of interest. So I guess "honestly" still means that you don't agree with that ruling. Which is no surprise - most East posters don't consider decisions handed down as having any weight unless they agree with the decision.

Jim

 

[EastUS]

Keep in mind that your idea of fairness of the Nicolau award or anything else in this world is not the final word.

As you are not living up to the obligation of keeping your word. I would recalculate how often you throw around the word "Integrity".

1) Indeed.....and that's a two-edged sword that cuts both ways.

2) Show me anywhere/anytime I've given you or anyone else out west my personal word and not kept it....? Spare me any further BS about "Integrity".

PS: Heck...I don't even deny your folks jumpseats!...and yet...I've yet to recieve so much as a cactus pin, or at least a merit badge for my scout's uniform for even that! 😉

 

[EastUS]

Which is no surprise - most East posters don't consider decisions handed down as having any weight unless they agree with the decision.

Oh I'd have to differ there. Court's decisions can hold heavy weight indeed. Consider the case of Gallileo. His "insane"/heretical views that the earth actually revolved around the sun almost got him burned at the stake by way of courtroom process. His contrition against all that silly nonsense about the earth not being the literal center of all things was done to prevent the weight of the enlightened Judges' flames frying his flesh off. All done nice and legal-like....so there should be no problem I guess?

Do you agree with that proceeding's decisions?

 

[EastUS]

Actually, the Nicolau was on trial in that it was Exhibit #2 I think. THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT. It was right there before the jurors and if it was soooooo unfair, then there is such a thing as jury nullification ala OJ.

Is that what you wanted - an OJ jury?

Hmmm.....If we're to assume that all jurors present read and fully understood the nic, how things work in the airline bizz, etc... ...One might then at least briefly wonder...I mean....umm....well: Are you completely certain that it wasn't the OJay jury reconstituted for the case? :blink:

 

[cynic]

Oh I'd have to differ there. Court's decisions can hold heavy weight indeed. Consider the case of Gallileo. His "insane"/heretical views that the earth actually revolved around the sun almost got him burned at the stake by way of courtroom process.

Fortunately the catholic church has not been involved in this case, so there shouldn't be anyone burned at the stake or imprisoned for the rest of their lives.

 

[EastUS]

Fortunately the catholic church has not been involved in this case, so there shouldn't be anyone burned at the stake or imprisoned for the rest of their lives.

Hopefuly not, but one can never fully predict court processes/outcomes

 

[BoeingBoy]

Do you agree with that proceeding's decisions?

Only if you can explain how it applies to the U.S. legal system today. Since I take it you don't think our legal system is perfect (and I happen to agree), which legal system would you rather be subject to?

BTW, you're entitled to disagree with my statements, but pertinent reasons would be nice. Long ago and far away isn't really pertinent.

JimG

 

[snapthis]

<_< date='Feb 4 2010, 08:05 PM)-->QUOTE (EastUS' <_< date='Feb 4 2010, 08:05 PM) [post="729062"][/post]
1) Indeed.....and that's a two-edged sword that cuts both ways.

2) Show me anywhere/anytime I've given you or anyone else out west my personal word and not kept it....? Spare me any further BS about "Integrity".

PS: Heck...I don't even deny your folks jumpseats!...and yet...I've yet to recieve so much as a cactus pin, or at least a merit badge for my scout's uniform for even that! 😉[/quote]

No jumpseat denials from this pilot as well. Gold Cactus 18 pins like the one in my avatar can be purchased for a minimum donation of $500 to the legal defense fund. My contributions have far exceeded this figure to defend the rights of fellow pilots.

Still want a pin? :unsure:

 

[EastUS]

<_< date='Feb 4 2010, 08:05 PM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (EastUS' <_< date='Feb 4 2010, 08:05 PM) [post="729062"][/post]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1) Indeed.....and that's a two-edged sword that cuts both ways.

2) Show me anywhere/anytime I've given you or anyone else out west my personal word and not kept it....? Spare me any further BS about "Integrity".

PS: Heck...I don't even deny your folks jumpseats!...and yet...I've yet to recieve so much as a cactus pin, or at least a merit badge for my scout's uniform for even that! 😉

No jumpseat denials from this pilot as well. Gold Cactus 18 pins like the one in my avatar can be purchased for a minimum donation of $500 to the legal defense fund.

Still want a pin? :unsure:

I guess not, but....a merit badge woulda' been nice

 

[Black Swan]

<_< date='Feb 4 2010, 08:05 PM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (EastUS' <_< date='Feb 4 2010, 08:05 PM) [post="729062"][/post]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1) Indeed.....and that's a two-edged sword that cuts both ways.

2) Show me anywhere/anytime I've given you or anyone else out west my personal word and not kept it....? Spare me any further BS about "Integrity".

PS: Heck...I don't even deny your folks jumpseats!...and yet...I've yet to recieve so much as a cactus pin, or at least a merit badge for my scout's uniform for even that! 😉

No jumpseat denials from this pilot as well. Gold Cactus 18 pins like the one in my avatar can be purchased for a minimum donation of $500 to the legal defense fund. My contributions have far exceeded this figure to defend the rights of fellow pilots.

Still want a pin? :unsure:

Never a denial from me either. Scouts Honor. As far as your pin, the LOA 93 pin is coming soon, stand by...............

 

[cleardirect]

Never a denial from me either. Scouts Honor. As far as your pin, the LOA 93 pin is coming soon, stand by...............

Would that be for the legal fund to sue the senile arbitrator that denies the grievance?

 

[EastUS]

Since I take it you don't think our legal system is perfect (and I happen to agree), ......

Then it appears we've no real argument here. Legal decisions most certainly have weight...and equally certainly...they can be completely wrong on any moral and rational level. Positing the latter conditions; would you argue that it's not at least reasonable to find rational disagreement with such decisions? Should the perrogative, of any supposedly free people, to find fault with the glorious renderings of any court be somehow denied to east pilots?..if so; on what basis?

Case closed.

 

[snapthis]

Never a denial from me either. Scouts Honor. As far as your pin, the LOA 93 pin is coming soon, stand by...............

At least we agree that jumpseat denials are a no no.

Good luck earning the 93 pin...

 

[BoeingBoy]

Should the perrogative, of any supposedly free people, to find fault with the glorious renderings of any court be somehow denied to east pilots?..if so; on what basis?

To start with, certainly more basis than just calling the judge "your boy", "the desert judge" or "a senile old man" for the arbitrator. Disagreeing with a judgment should have more basis than just making slurs on the judge's or arbitrator's character. Disagreement should have some basis in fact or law, wouldn't you agree?

Jim