US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

Things that make you go hummmm.

The LOA 93 grievance hearings, USAPA publishes for everyone’s ease of reading the union’s opening statement. But the companies opening statement they do not publish and stick way back in the web site. Now knowing the level of curiosity of the east pilots my guess is that very few east pilots bothered to go looking for that opener.

It is 19 pages I suggest that everyone take the time and go find and read that statement. It is very informative and everyone can make up their own minds about the chances of winning this grievance. Pay attention to this phrase.

It is evident that USAPA's grievance not only lacks merit, it is frivolous. It is dangerously frivolous, and it must be denied.

This may be significant later. There is a lot of really good information in there that most east pilots may not know or want to know or will admit to knowing. The part about the bankruptcy and the 1113(E) filing really gets the attention. How long did you guys say you had before liquidating?

And at the same time, the Company made clear to the Bankruptcy Court and to ALPA that if the parties could not reach agreement on Letter 93, the Company would be compelled to file a motion to reject the pilot's entire Collective Bargaining Agreement as permitted under Section 1113© of the Bankruptcy Code.

Same discussions were occurring with each and every one of the Unions at US Airways at that time.

Now, shortly after the Company filed its 1113(E) motion, ALPA and the Company reached the Tentative Agreement on Letter 93, providing for an 18 percent cut in wages.

And while that Tentative Agreement was out for ratification, our evidence is going to show that the Bankruptcy Court actually granted US Airways 1113 motion providing for a 21 percent reduction in wages, which would take effect if the pilots did not ratify Letter 93.

I also ask myself, self how is it that they can publish the transcript for the opening of usapa and the company done on two different days but it is going to take two weeks before they release the transcripts from the whole hearing. Why the delay? What is it that they are trying to hide? Obliviously they have these days why wait two weeks? Could it be so everyone forgets and does not bother to read any of them? Just asking.

My prediction is that USAPA loses this big. The next thing to happen will be another round of the blame game. That it will be all ALPA’s fault. A rehash of the T/A 8 loss. That ALPA did not tell usapa these things. That ALPA should have done this that or the other. That the ALPA witnesses were bad, liars, paid off or had some ulterior agenda. But it will not be usapa’s fault, the grievances chairman’s fault, no one that invented this thing, filed it or prosecuted it will be to blame for this. That will be the spin, the truth will be something a little different.

 

[EastUS]

And you just wait until the Dragon Fairies hear about this!!!!

Were they previously unaware of the virtually imminent and very substantial east attrition? :blink:

 

[HPearlyretiree]

The true believers in USAPA are like the mythical japanese army guys marooned on an island, picked up 20 years later, thinking they won the war.

Reality moves on, but those lost in the faux fervor of USAPA just keep plugging along in their ignorance.

What part of Binding do they not understand?

 

[EastUS]

The true believers in USAPA are like the mythical japanese army guys marooned on an island, picked up 20 years later, thinking they won the war.

Reality moves on, but those lost in the faux fervor of USAPA just keep plugging along in their ignorance.

What part of Binding do they not understand?

1) Japanese soldiers were indeed surrendering themselves considerably more than 20 years after the war. None interviewed held any fantasies that Dai Nippon had triumphed. They were simply doing their Duty as they understood it. A primary notion within Bushido is that one never surrenders...so it took some of them a great many years dealing with unimaginable loneliness, isolation and sometimes impending starvation to finally come in to "the enemy's camp". It's perhaps worth noting that these men weren't the least bit "mythical", and further, that they were welcomed home in most part as heros. Personally?..I find them quite worthy of my sincere salute for such incredibly extended dedication to Duty, their Honor and their Nation.

2) The above is both true and fully representative of ANY aspect of anyone's Reality. Look up some/any info on those "mythical" soldiers sometime.

3) What part of History do you not understand? 🙄

 

[flyinawa]

What part of Binding do they not understand?

Evidently, the "Binding" part.

 

[luvthe9]

Why do guys keep doing this to yourselfs, the NIC is dead it's not going to happen get over it. The way YOUR management is running this place into the ground we'll all be out of a job anyway.

 

[Pi brat]

My prediction is that USAPA loses this big. The next thing to happen will be another round of the blame game.

The blame game started on the first update. Names were listed to focus anger.

 

[cleardirect]

The blame game started on the first update. Names were listed to focus anger.

Mr. Glass testified about various documents including a letter written by then MEC Chairman Bill Pollock to the US Airways pilots explaining the pros and cons contained in LOA 93.


When questioned by USAPA’s Lead Counsel Sue Edwards as to how the Company came into possession of the letter, Mr. Glass stated it was placed in the Company files by a Management Pilot who had obtained it from the ALPA website.

Mr. Glass also testified to an email forwarded to him by MEC Chairman Bill Pollock concerning a Council 94 (Pittsburgh) update expressing the council’s opinion and recommendations concerning the upcoming vote on LOA 93.

Another document Mr. Glass testified about was ALPA’s road show presentation to its members. Again, when asked by Ms. Edwards how the Company came into possession of this document, Mr. Glass stated the same source; specifically, Captain Paul Morrell – currently Vice President, Safety and Regulatory Compliance for US Airways.

Mr. Glass testified to another document in the Company’s position that had been provided by Captain Bob Skinner – Managing Director Flight Training and Standards. According to Mr. Glass, Check Airman – Captain Mike Davis - CLT, had forwarded this document to Captain Skinner.

The cross-examination of Mr. Glass was brief, running approximately ten minutes. During the questioning, Mr. Glass acknowledged that the pilots had given huge concessions in order to help the Company survive. When asked about the expiration of the LOA 93 pay rates, he said, “It was never an issue.â€

Yep! Started the name blame game right away. What I found interesting was the Feb 2 update, the last several paragraphs. There was no substance there. The update seemed to be more concerned about where documents came from or how they got them then what the document actually said. In the end what really is more important, did it help or hurt the case? My guess is these documents hurt usapa’s case that is why the contents were not discussed.

“It was never an issue†Talk about taking a statement out of context. Did anyone ask themselves why it was never and issue? Take the time and read the opening statement and find out why it was never an issue.

For those of you hope for at least a 1 of 3 victory. Better count this one as a loss. When are you east guys going to start asking question of your leadership? You blame ALPA for leading you down all the wrong paths, well you followed willing. Why are you doing the same thing, willing following this leadership down the wrong path again?

 

[Phoenix]

So, somehow USAPA is responsible for the west MEC's failure to enter into Section 6 negotiations at the first opportunity? This all occurred before USAPA even existed, but now the west MEC's decision (and the miraculous negotiations they otherwise would have performed with Parker and Kirby) are valid reasons to blame USAPA for slow negotiations?

Is that the point you are making?

Did you learn that in law school, too?

Nope. John Grisham. He has many popular text books, so I am told.

 

[snapthis]

Reason for declining union membership is GREED. Unions run by goons and making it unprofitable for businesses to keep their factories in the USA.

"Sundown on the union, what was made in the USA, sure was a good idea, till greed got in the way......"

What good is an industry leading contract if the company can't pay the bills? Us Air was always a lousy operation brought to Tempe. They are the poster child for a dysfunctional company that should have died long ago.

You can't fix stupid.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You can't fix stupid.

And which management team does the west brag survived the merger?

 

[Phoenix]

Funny, I didn't hear any of this talk of shortcomings, symptoms, and diseases when the east was just assuming they were going to get their way.

You're not fooling anyone but yourselves as to why this has degenerated into what it has.

Everyone had some expectation, however misplaced it was, that ALPA would translate decades of dues receipts into some sense of responsibility to do a minimal effort of doing what was right. Not many pilots really ever read the fine print and realized that ALPA was only a figment with regard to seniority among all it members (or maybe we just never opened our eyes to the many obvious examples of ALPA's ability to perpetuate lawsuit after lawsuit among "ALPA family"). ALPA never can ensure seniority among all its members. Its right there in black and white.

BFD. It is what it is.. we have more lawsuits among "ALPA" groups. Show me something new, already.

In all seriousness, I give them all the credit for doing their absolute best that they were up to. Three cheers for John and the gang. They were/are very skilled at what they do.

Here's a quarter...

 

[EastUS]

Everyone had some expectation, however misplaced it was, that ALPA would translate decades of dues receipts into some sense of responsibility to do a minimal effort of doing what was right.

In all seriousness, I give them all the credit for doing their absolute best that they were up to. Three cheers for John and the gang. They were/are very skilled at what they do.

Here's a quarter...

1) Yep. Whoo boy!...and all concerned never more wrong than in even slightly ever making that happy/hapless assumption.

2) If by that you mean becoming bloated parasites wallowing about in the hallowed slop troughs of herndon....I'd tentatively agree, although far more capable and far less annoying examples can easilly be found in nature....the common tick for but one example.

3) We differ there sir. Wherever alpa's concerned; I have to go with "no quarter asked nor given!"

 

[Freighterguynow]

What have the furloughed AWA pilots gained since the merger announcement in May 2005? A quick refresher would show that at the time of the merger announcement a new hire class actually was in training and another class had been selected and established, but was terminated do to the merger.

America West stopped hiring in preparation for bankruptcy.

Without the merger none of us would have jobs.

 

[luvn737s]

We in the east are 16 months from the attrition going wild from sick/LTD. 16 months from now we will have pilots in the east 63.5 years old with full sick banks..........the east will have to recall all furloughed pilots and will begin to hire off the street. These new pilots will always vote with the east, for the attrition.....they will be 5 year captains in the east. We in the east are 28 months away from the massive east attrition for the rest of our careers. June of 2012 will be here before you know it and the company will have to start to ramp up the training, because when December 2012 rolls around each and every day another pilot in the east turns 65.

That stuff sounds better coming out of this guy!