US Pilots labor Discussion 12/4-

[exB717Flyer]

Good discussion about ripeness versus statute of limitations. In the TWA pilots versus APA/ALPA/AA/TWA suit all but ALPA was dismissed due to the six month statute. The APA announced their cramdown seniority list in October, 2001, yet it wasn't imposed until the following April. The suit was filed within six months of April yet the judge ruled that the statute date was October. This further proves Dr. Jacobs argument about ripeness vesus timeliness.

 

[luvn737s]

If the company "wins" and the rates stay frozen the pilots will strike at the first opportunity. Winning a dispute feels good but only if you can survive the inevitable consequences.

underpants

Do you suppose USAPA would even put out a strike vote if they knew best-case scenario they would only get a 66% YES result ( remember the vote goes to the entire pilot group, not the He-Man Westy Haters Club - so more like <35%)? There will be no self help until USAPA is shown the door.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

Sure. Which pilots will strike at the first opportunity? Certainly not those on the Western side of the Mississippi. Pull whatever illegal job action you think you have the stones for but the one living with the consequences will you and those like-minded.

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Answer to question no#1....All pilots not wanting to be scabs, ie. at first opportunity( cooling off etc)
Thus there is no answer to non-question no#2....no illeagle job action....

so that begs the question?....Who has the "Stones" to redilly accept the lable of "Scab" and live with the consequences (along with those Like-minded) ......

I believe if your union has a cooling off and an approved strike and you cross the picket line....well then you will have shown your true colors, and the last 3yrs will have been proven....
If however you stand with your Brethern, in true Union solidarty, we may show the company they must honor all contracts, not just the ones they chose.....

Can I get a High "5" for union solidarty!!!

 

[traderjake]

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Answer to question no#1....All pilots not wanting to be scabs, ie. at first opportunity( cooling off etc)

There's no dishonor in being called a scab by USAPA.

USAirways will not survive a strike and no other airline is going to hire a USAPA supporter that killed the airline.

 

[nycbusdriver]

USAirways will not survive a strike and no other airline is going to hire a USAPA supporter that killed the airline.

ho hum

 

[oldiebutgoody]

There's no dishonor in being called a scab by USAPA.

USAirways will not survive a strike and no other airline is going to hire a USAPA supporter that killed the airline.

Pretty stupid statement. Since it's generally the pilots at each airline that do the hiring, I doubt that any pilot that didn't support his union would be hired. That's pretty much the way it's always worked in this screwed up industry, except for a few that managed to "sneak" in.

Personally, i'd find it a huge dishonor to be called that by anybody. Just shows how selffish one can be.

 

[cactusboy53]

Pretty stupid statement. Since it's generally the pilots at each airline that do the hiring, I doubt that any pilot that didn't support his union would be hired. That's pretty much the way it's always worked in this screwed up industry, except for a few that managed to "sneak" in.

Personally, i'd find it a huge dishonor to be called that by anybody. Just shows how selffish one can be.

While your statements are generally true, I contend that the hubris that it has taken to form the USAPA association and the path that they have taken to usurp the the seniority of the America West pilots has not gone unnoticed. Further, the PERSECUTION of the Cactus 18 well past the point of stupidity has also given you another "scarlet letter". If US Airways goes the way of Eastern, Pan Am, etc........the job seekers will find the interview staff savvy as to which applicants are "westies" vs. "easties". It has already happened in the jump seat to me, and it will happen in the interview room (most times, I would bet). The bad news, you ask? The damage has been done.

The proper legal and moral obligation has now past over 2 years ago. We all could have enjoyed better wages and schedule. This airline might have even been in a better financial position. The east pilot group has allowed a largely junior cadre of pilots control the "association". These guys have followed the legal counsel advice at every turn, and the only winner will be USAPA's legal team.

While a member of USAPA, you will not find me in support of strike that pertains specifically to anything that benefits only the east pilot group. USAPA continues to waste millions of dollars in ill thought plans and devices. They are leading the east pilot group on the path of disaster.....much like the lead lemming.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Pretty stupid statement. Since it's generally the pilots at each airline that do the hiring, I doubt that any pilot that didn't support his union would be hired. That's pretty much the way it's always worked in this screwed up industry, except for a few that managed to "sneak" in.

Personally, i'd find it a huge dishonor to be called that by anybody. Just shows how selffish one can be.

Why would any west pilot give up his income in order to show support for an eastie? Dishonor? You apparently don't realize what a laughing-stock-union usapa already is.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Navigating the section 6 process to reach an impass requires shrewd union leadership.

Don't expect to reach an impass anytime soon; not with these idiots.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

USAirways will not survive a strike and no other airline is going to hire a USAPA supporter that killed the airline.

A bit melodramatic don't you think?

A SCAB is a SCAB - no other way to justify it.

 

[Pi brat]

There's no dishonor in being called a scab by USAPA.

USAirways will not survive a strike and no other airline is going to hire a USAPA supporter that killed the airline.

Who in their right mind would hire a pilot from either side of this mess? I imagine they would see us all as scarred for life. But..........a scab is a scab and I don't imagine advertising that you are, or are willing to be one will do anything for your job prospects.

 

[cleardirect]

Does anyone really think that usapa will survive the next two to three years as a union in it's present form to even get to cooling off?

If the west wins the appeal and usapa losses the snap back grievance what does usapa (the current leadership) have left to offer the east pilots? It would be time to remove the current leadership (notice I said leadership not union) and replace them with someone that is at least reasonable. Therefore they could get west participation in a strike if it comes to that. Instead of suing west pilots and threatening to damage us as the current leadership is doing.

If usapa wins the appeal and snap back what does usapa have to offer the west pilots? That would be nothing and we have nothing to loss by crossing a line.

All of the risk is on usapa's side at this point.

 

[nic4us]

.......That's pretty much the way it's always worked in this screwed up industry, except for a few that managed to "sneak" in.

Personally, i'd find it a huge dishonor to be called that by anybody. Just shows how selffish one can be.

Oldie,

You have hit on something that I have recognized for some time now. Sometimes it is not your actions that get you a special tittle, it is others perceptions of what your actions and intent may have been. It boils down to, if enough people call you a name, it is going to stick, regardless of what your true actions and intentions were.

Just ask the usapa com guy, he wrote a nice letter explaining his motivation, yet his name is still on the list for dealing with Continental during their strike. The AWA australia folks have plenty of excuses for why their names should not be listed, yet there they are.

So, as I have said before, there is no way I would cross a legitimate usapa picket line, however, there is no way I am going to walk one either. If my inaction and refusal to participate got me a new label, so be it. But consider this, if enough of the industry decides to call usapa members names for their refusal to honor the rules of our country, the industry and their own union, in their attempt at stealing West jobs, well make no mistake, the name can stick.

 

[aquagreen73s]

So, as I have said before, there is no way I would cross a legitimate usapa picket line, however, there is no way I am going to walk one either.

If the Hobson's Choice of supporting the strike or not comes to pass, then it will only be because there is a leadership in place which unified this pilot group. Without unity there will be no clear purpose and without a clear purpose, the section 6 process will resemble an impenetrable barrier. If some East pilots think getting to a strike is as easy as filing a frivolous claim in the Western Dist of NC, then they've got another thing coming.

 

[nic4us]

If some East pilots think getting to a strike is as easy as filing a frivolous claim in the Western Dist of NC, then they've got another thing coming.

01-01-10 Cash or Chaos

Apparently, some east pilots think it is as easy as the company not doing as they are told by usapa.

I believe the expression is "they have another think coming", but in this instance you are correct, usapa has "another thing coming" and that is quite the understatement.