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US Pilots labor Discussion 12/4-

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I'm surprised. I thought you knew the difference between the two circumstances.

I know that you think there's a difference. That doesn't make it so, only makes it your opinion.

There is one difference - that I'll agree with. Binding arbitration is claimed to be meaningless when USAPA doesn't get it's way, but absolutely binding when the result is what USAPA wants.

Jim
 
Looking back in the past!

https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_p...c?2007cv1309-18

Ultimately, the ALPA Merger Policy generates a proposed seniority list, which ALPA promises to present to the merged airlines in an effort to persuade the merged airlines to adopt the list. See Defs. Opp’n 3-4." .........



Signed: Emmet G. Sullivan

United States District Judge

November 30, 2007

Hate
Maybe you should send this to Lee Seham. You do know that ALPA presented the list. You also know that the merged airline (LCC) has already adopted the proposal. So that means it is no longer a proposal but the accepted list.

Why it that you get this but not Seham?
 
Looking back in the past!

https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_p...c?2007cv1309-18

Ultimately, the ALPA Merger Policy generates a proposed seniority list, which ALPA promises to present to the merged airlines in an effort to persuade the merged airlines to adopt the list. See Defs. Opp’n 3-4." .........



Signed: Emmet G. Sullivan

United States District Judge

November 30, 2007

Hate

Also, Hate,

As with all the other contracts usapa has laid claim to, in judge Sullivan's statement simply cross out ALPA and insert usapa. Problem for usapa is they came along to late in the process for the first part of the sentence to be in the future tense.
 
Bad analogy. Remand costs you another 1.5 mil. BRING IT ON!!
At the rate you're going, you're going to have to change your handle to "end_of_usapa" :lol:

Edit: as to a remand, keep in mind the structure is up and running; the evidence is gathered, and the attorneys are totally up to speed. It would be like taking the same exam twice. They cleaned your clock once and doing it again would be pretty straight forward.
 
Actually I have always predicted the SCOTUS will accept this case due two factors:

Different interpretations in the various courts and because of the standstill created that is exemplified in the companies letter to the NMB.

Every man for himself.....looks like "at will" employment coming our way!!

Now we compete with each other and to the bottom of the barrel!
Different interpretations? For the same reason the en banc court will not hear this case the SCOTUS will ignore this case. (Funny how that option was mentioned only right before the oral arguments) The only question is ripeness nothing else. If you notice the audio no questions were asked about if USAPA was liable of the DFR that is a settled question they are. Neither court is going to waste it’s time over ripeness.

The only way we would become at will is if USAPA decides to fold. Is that what you are predicting? That the leadership at USAPA will cut and run and collapse under the pressure of failing to deliver on their promises?


The race to the bottom is being won by the east. Nice head start you all have. Thanks for dragging down the industry. So we will have USAPA to blame for the race when they fold?

It just keeps getting better all of the things that USAPA is doing.
 
It will not be nearly that much. But the way Seham charges usapa will run another $2.5 mil. Paid for on LOA 93 wages.
Talk of a remand is pretty much nonsense, really. If there was a flaw in how the trial was conducted, then USAPA would have gotten somewhere with their request to stay the injunction. The panel has had the case for some time, they've had the briefs for nearly two months, they get the picture and it's a pretty clear picture: Judge Bybee out of the starting gate hitting Seham with the binding doesn't mean binding line of questioning and then you don't hear from him again. Nothing else to say I suppose. Then Judge Graber letting Seham talk himself into a corner he couldn't possibly hope to get out of was priceless. Then there's Judge T. quietly mentioning the distinction brought out in Ramey which is the exact reason why the case is the centerpiece of the plaintiff's case. So talk of a remand is just plain silly.
 
First, I'm not Lee.

Secondly, YOU have a problem: MONEY! Try and raise a million more from your poor comrades.

Moreover, don't join the union and you have no vote....your discrimination argument is not statutory. you have no claim there. Then you'll get another judge, most likely. Argued ALL OVER again.

Lastly, if you DO become a member, it will be proven that YOU HAD A VOTE!!! You participated! We know your argument.

War of attrition. Show me the money!! You guys just don't get it...IT'S THE VOTE!

You guys are right...."YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!"
Lee,

Shouldn't you be filing some paperwork to appeal this thing en banc?
 
I've heard that the rest of the EMB's are sold and the transaction is being finalized.

We'll be hearing more soon.
 
Merry Christmas until next year 😀 .
Merry Xmas Phoenix. Seriously.

With the way this country has been run over the past two decades, there may not be much left over to argue about! Might as well enjoy the Holidays.
 
I've heard that the rest of the EMB's are sold and the transaction is being finalized.

We'll be hearing more soon.

Yo HPDriver,

The first ten that Republic just purchased are going to give Doug a little heart burn!

Section 1 Scope is pretty tight language.

The Collective Bargaining Agreement states in pertinent part:

In addition to all other rights under the Agreement, if any pilot whose name appears on the then current System Seniority List would be furloughed in anticipation of or as a result of such action the Company shall not: ***** Sell, lease or otherwise transfer any aircraft currently owned, leased or operated by US Airways, Inc. or any new or used aircraft currently on firm order from the manufacturer or owner thereof, to any Part 121 airline which is owned, controlled or operated by the Company, whether directly or indirectly through an affiliate or subsidiary wholly owned or controlled by the Company, or by a holding company of which the Company is a wholly owned subsidiary, or to another Part 121 airline using the US Airways designator code, name, logo or marketing identity… CBA: Section 1. (B) 4 (B) (emphasis added).

Hate
 
Section 1 Scope is pretty tight language.

With "tight" being in the eye of the beholder.

#1 - Did Republic Airlines buy the 190's? They're a part 121 carrier so the deal might run afoul of the scope language. Or were the planes sold to RAH, the holding company? They're not a part 121 carrier so no problem.

#2 - The part about "using the US Airways designator code....". The acquiring entity flying only under the US code, doing some flying under the US code, or the airplanes sold to them flown in whole or part under the US code?

As for #1, there is disagreement - US (in it's Investor Updates) said the planes were sold to "Republic Airlines, Inc" while RAH in it's quarterly report said "the company" (RAH since they filed the report) bought the planes. I assume that the actual sales agreement would answer this question.

#2 is an interpretation/intent issue, assuming that the answer to #1 is Republic Airlines, Inc. If the answer to #1 is RAH, #2 is not applicable since it's not RAH using the US designator but rather Republic Airlines, Inc.

Jim
 
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