US Pilots Labor Discussion 4/6- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[End of USAPA]

I have a bad feeling the lottery ticket holders are about to cash in thier tickets! How unfiar! these guys were learning how to ride bikes when I was flying big planes!!!
USAP is gone. But at least they got us a lot of upgrades and the westies are furloughed out of seniority. DOH is the only fair way to merge, Allegeny Mohawk states it. UAL wants DOH and so does Parker, it is what is fair for everybody. The Piedmont pilots were happy to get DOH! Its the way it is always done.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Seems pretty simple to me,

So is saying "The sun rises in the west" but that doesn't make it correct.

It's just this current transition phase that is giving everyone so much trouble. This too shall pass.

On this we can agree. Once the 9th rules I suspect most of the roadblocks will be removed.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

I have a bad feeling the lottery ticket holders are about to cash in thier tickets! How unfiar! these guys were learning how to ride bikes when I was flying big planes!!!
USAP is gone. But at least they got us a lot of upgrades and the westies are furloughed out of seniority. DOH is the only fair way to merge, Allegeny Mohawk states it. UAL wants DOH and so does Parker, it is what is fair for everybody. The Piedmont pilots were happy to get DOH! Its the way it is always done.

A&M does not state DOH. Please post the language from A&M that proves your point. Hoping and wishing does not make it so.

What makes you think that Parker or UAL wants DOH other than your projection of desire on to them?

 

[cleardirect]

"D. To maintain uniform principles of seniority based on date of hire and the perpetuation thereof, with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot’s un-merged career expectations."

Seems pretty simple to me, it’s just this current transition phase that is giving everyone so much trouble. This too shall pass.

RR

What document is that from? What are A, B, C, E, F sections? What does that section have to do with the AWA/AAA merger? What does that section have to do with another merger at this time?

Your post goes under the category of irrelevant and extraneous unless stuff.

 

[Barrister]

And whatever years we had put into our airlines both bought us a captain seat on a 757/767. On the date of corporate closure, the NW pilot got a 12% pay raise and I got a 0% pay raise. That brought his pay up the equivalent of hundreds of NW pilots all retiring on a single day. It's called the balance of the equities. You think there is only one equity in a merger, longevity. Oddly, the NW pilots next to me were redbook guys from the NW/Republic merger and had previously argued that longevity was worthless.

At least I have been consistent in my views and not adjusted them based on my personal situation. (See US Airways in the Trump Shuttle merger where DOH and longevity weren't important at all, you know Pot and Kettle and all that). Multiple arbitrators in a variety of cases have all concluded that there is a balance of the equities in a merger and that longevity is only one portion of that balance.

So before you guys blow your top again, you should get used to the idea that in a future arbitration longevity will not be the only equity. Or I guess you guys could throw another 5 year temper tantrum because that's working so well for you so far.

You seem to have a hard time answering a simple question. Was the NW guy just below you on the new DAL at NW approximately 3 years longer than you were at DAL. YES...OR...NO........If yes then we know why you are so happy with your result. Doesn't make you a bad person just want to know through which pair of lenses you are looking through.

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[HP2USFA]

You seem to have a hard time answering a simple question. Was the NW guy just below you on the new DAL at NW approximately 3 years longer than you were at DAL. YES...OR...NO........If yes then we know why you are so happy with your result. Doesn't make you a bad person just want to know through which pair of lenses you are looking through.

VNIIMN
NPJB

Maybe that's because he understands that instead of comprehending the information that's relevant in his post you'll simply fixate on a number that isn't and it will add fuel to this out of control inferno that is the AFO crusade.

You're not going to get a smoking gun number that will lend support to your insistence that relative seniority mergers are evil and unfair. Because his posts demonstrate that regardless of the DOH the people above and below him all could hold comparable seats on comparable aircraft. Which is what the nic is about and obviously what he focuses on.

It shouldn't be that hard to grasp that you're alone in your particular viewpoint. Well you and the handful of others who felt strongly enough to register here and pontificate about it.

It should also be telling that there aren't more of you on here fighting tooth and nail in solidarity. Either you overestimate the true support of the East membership or the others recognize the futility of internet arguments.

 

[Richard]

Time for a warning again my friends-- NO PERSONAL ATTACKS--

The "troll" baiter is gone for a week...MANY posts have been deleted.

Please discuss the ISSUES and refrain from attacking each other.......the corn field is getting crowded again.

 

[HP2USFA]

I do hope you get paid for this Richard. Cause if you don't you need to!

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

Or I guess you guys could throw another 5 year temper tantrum because that's working so well for you so far.

Sad but true...

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

I have a bad feeling the lottery ticket holders are about to cash in thier tickets! How unfiar! these guys were learning how to ride bikes when I was flying big planes!!!
USAP is gone. But at least they got us a lot of upgrades and the westies are furloughed out of seniority. DOH is the only fair way to merge, Allegeny Mohawk states it. UAL wants DOH and so does Parker, it is what is fair for everybody. The Piedmont pilots were happy to get DOH! Its the way it is always done.

Please explain how the UAL group will want DOH when that will slot 70% of the east group above 70% of the UAL group.

Does anyone remember why ALPA changed the merger policy and what group initiated the change and why???

 

[N905TW]

But at least they got us a lot of upgrades and the westies are furloughed out of seniority.

You feel better now that you've stolen jobs that didn't belong to you for the past two years?

Disgusting.

Everyone knew from the start that USAPA was only about sticking it to the West in any shape, form, or way imaginable.

Don't worry, you and the rest of the AFO club will get yours in the end.

 

[Poug Darker]

You feel better now that you've stolen jobs that didn't belong to you for the past two years?

Disgusting.

Everyone knew from the start that USAPA was only about sticking it to the West in any shape, form, or way imaginable.

Don't worry, you and the rest of the AFO club will get yours in the end.

All the east guys wanted was what they brought to the merger - the attrition. The NIC took that away. Simple.
There is no chest-thumping about wanting what the west has, or will have, only about getting the seats that will be vacated by east retiring pilots.
That's it.
USAPA was formed because all of the east pilots knew that staying with ALPA would get them screwed - again.

 

[aquagreen73s]

All the east guys wanted was what they brought to the merger - the attrition.

Total and complete BS and it does not matter how many times you guys on the East repeat that lie, everyone knows that you tried the all-or-nothing land grab of DOH. Guess what...it didn't work. Instead you got something that was for the most part fair - the NIC.

 

[HP2USFA]

Not to mention that the Nic did NOT take away East attrition.

Is there some reason why 2:1 ratio (East to West) is so difficult to grasp? Would you please explain how a 2 to 1 ratio of seniority = no East upgrades? I'd understand the concept if it was 2 West to 1 East... but that's not the case.

Again it boils down to the 'I don't want him to take my job... but I'm happy to take his' argument. You can't stomach even one guy going in between the other 2 East guys but you wonder why folks are fighting tooth and nail fight an even worse fate at the hands of DOH?

 

[A320 Driver]

The shuttle pilot with the most seniority in the USAirways, Shuttle merger was one number below Chris Bebee, a USAirways pilot that was an ALPA national shill at the time. Am I wrong Boeing Boy? Rhetorical question admittedly.

Chris Bebee was chairman of the USAirways MEC at the time of the shuttle merger. After bringing ALPA national a favorable shuttle merger. He was awarded the VP of Finance job at ALPA. He was promptly kicked out of the ALPA building when USAPA was voted in.

To those that do not know, USAPA was voted in as the pilots union representation April 17th, 2008.

Hey, has it been two years already? (another rhetorical question)

I'm obviously not Boeing Boy, but I would like to say that the Shuttle pilots did not even ASK for DOH (they knew better) and the most senior shuttle pilot was slotted in below the most junior 767 Captain, which BTW, was NOT Chris Bebee. Had Nic used the same logic in this arbitration, the most senior West pilot would have been placed somewhere between 800 and 1000 on the list. At the time the snapshot was taken, the most junior A-330 Captain was around 835. I don't know where the most junior 767 Captain was. It shouldn't be too hard to find out, but I'm not going to research it. Had the Shuttle/Empire pilots been succesfull in their lawsuit, the senior Captain at the airline would be Shuttle. The Empire pilots asked for their DOH all the way back to the Navajos and Merlins.


Driver B)