US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

Gentlemen I have checked pacer again, yet there is still no filing for the plaintiffs on the federal record. Where is a copy of this wonderful example of legal genius in the MDA case?

Who did this lawyer file it with, the pony express? Did he write it for the plaintiffs and tell them this is what I would have filed?

If you all believe that the Nicolau is dead where is your harm now? So how can the MDA suit continue if you will never have to live under the Nicolau? You see no contract, no Nicolau, no harm, no ripeness, no case.

Explain your work.

Sounds like you have a lot of unpaid bills and are trying to collect some money before the news comes out. What court was this filed with?

Case 1:05-cv-04751-NG -VVP Document 97 Filed 03/24/10 Page 1 of 1

That is the tag from the last filing. Is there another MDA case? Nothing about a deadline extension either. Somebody post the order that extended the deadline.

You are in for some more good news. Be patient.

 

[Black Swan]

Question for the glee club. What happens if the company decides to stand on principle and actually does what they say they were going to do and hold firm on the Nicolau as the list?

What leverage does usapa have to get anything other than the Nicolau?

As Seham said seniority is negotiated like a crew meal. What are you willing to give up for the entire pilot group to get something the east pilots? Did that like a DFR?

How does usapa get more money, line bidding, more vacation, more more more? The company knows the big ticket items that usapa wants. What are you guys willing to give away? Will you give away the west vacation to get DOH? Will you give away some of our good scheduling provisions to get DOH? Will you accept a pay raise for the east but a lower scale for the west, $140.00? Let’s see you take from the west to give more to the east. That sounds like a DFR.

Wait till you hear the truth on how flawed the list was that was given to Nicolau. I know, you are in denial of this one also. Perhaps an admission from a different source will shed new light on this. After the 9th, if the company insists on Nic, they are in serious trouble, and you know it. This thing is over. The Nic is dead.

 

[end_of_alpa]

It appears to me after reading some comments that Mike Cleary's President's letter published yesterday appears to lack vision and could not have been reviewed by his legal team before it was distributed. From USAPA's perspective his ill-advised injudicious letter he has given advanced "in-your-face" testimony to the Full 11-Member Ninth Circuit Court illustrating USAPA is going to continue on their "unquestionably ripe (for) DFR" self-destructive negotiating path.

Cleary said, "This decision allows USAPA, which represents all US Airways pilots, to freely bargain for the terms of its seniority integration."

However, Judge Bybee's dissenting opinion states, "One does not have to await the consummation of threatened injury to obtain preventative relief. If the injury is certainly impending, that is enough."”

Cleary' comment leaves little room for the Full 9th to doubt that injury to the West pilots is certainly impending and supports Bybee's opinion that injury is certainly pending when Cleary states in his letter that, "The decision allows USAPA to freely bargain for the terms of its seniority integration."

All of which could lead to a reversal of the majority opinion and upholding of the decision of the District court, when the Plaintiffs petition the 9th Circuit to hear the case en banc. Then when the Full 9th Circuit rules we may find out that Cleary couldn' have been more wrong when he said, "with the Company's recent demonstration of renewed motivation and cooperation, coupled with a resolution of this case, many of the significant impediments we faced in gaining a contract have been removed."

The Addington case is not resolved nor will it be any time soon. Therefore, it appears that the impediments to a contract have not been removed and Cleary just supported Judge Bybee' opinion, which will obviously be noted by the Full Ninth Circuit Court, and again, could cause a reversal of the majority opinion and upholding of the decision of the District Court. I'm sure Marty Harper has already taken note of this, and if I was a USAPA supporter, I could not be more upset with Cleary' actions.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

"Caped Marauder", why don't you stick with what you know, like airline mergers between United and US Airways, for instance.

The ninth could care less about his letters. If you really want to learn something why don't you R-E-A-D FRAP.

Oh thats right, unbiasfacts! You are a laughing stock, CM!!

I'll be flying in PHL this week and maybe I'll meet you face to face. I really want to meet the famous "Cape Maurader".

Then I'll be able to laugh at you to your face!

Don't woryy, I don;t bite!!

 

[Black Swan]

armyofleonidas.com got shut down. I wonder if AOL and Jacobs going to be sued for court costs. Looking forward to that!

As usual, "Cape Marauder" and his "SPIN" machine reemerge as a reincarnation of the Hindenburg DISASTER!

"Oh, the HUMANITY"!! Bag of gas deflated because of your use of methane instead of helium. History repeats itself.

Good riddance AOL.

The Army folded tents. Looks like they also padded the payroll for the good Dr. Jacobs. Of course the intention was to inflate the bill, then hope USAPA would have to pay. USAPA needs to subpoena the records and see if there was fraud being contemplated.

 

[Black Swan]

You are missing what I am saying.

As of right now Judge Wake doesn't have the jurisdiction to sign a dismissal. The jurisdiction is still with the Ninth Circuit until it rules on any request for an en banc hearing as long as one is timely filed by the Addington plaintiffs. If the Ninth Circuit denies an en banc request there would still be time then allowed for a writ of certiorari to be filed and decided by the SCOTUS.

As for Oldie's thoughts on whether or not the Ninth will grant an en banc review, I place the odds that they will at over 50%. If the decision had been unanimously then I would have cut those odds to under 25%.

Bybee being the dissenting opinion. From Vegas, a friend of Wake. Another judge who hates unions and does not get the RLA at all. What is is with the judges from AZ and Vegas? Did they all sleep through RLA at law school? You may not like unions, but you can't interfere. Go ahead and en banc. Bybee is going to get a schooling from the clerks. Here we go again, some supposedly learned judge lets his bias into the court. This is going to be another gaffe for the esteemed Arizona and Nevada legal brain trust. Just because you are ignorant of the law is no excuse to rule like this. The clerks are not going to believe this one! Another Desert Judge, making rulings with no basis with regard to RLA law.

 

[Black Swan]

Read Bybees' bio. Author of the waterboarding and torture memos. Another Bush right winger, union buster. Add another memo. Does what he pleases. Disregards RLA law at whim. No wonder this guy was the dissenter. This thing is over and done with. The clerks get it before the esteemed legal brain trust does. What a sad state of justice we are getting these days.

 

[Black Swan]

I suggest rolling out the URANIUM badge backers for the Addington en banc. Suitable for the OVER REACTION and subsequent MELTDOWN

 

[cleardirect]

Read the decision and the transition agreement....AGAIN.

The company has few economic restrictions requied of the union. There could be a plethora of lists the company could accept besides Nicolau OR DOH. The company isn't going to impede that. They would like to see this behind us.

Tell you what, odds of DOH list in next contract %100 without job action OR givebacks.

You guys win some battles but you keep LOSING THE WAR!!!

Read my question carefully. You say the company "could" accept many lists. They could also accept many pay scales or retirement packages. I said what if the company decides not to accept anything else but Nicolau? usapa is negotiating for seniorty and crew meals.

What is usapa going to do? What leverge does usapa have to get anything but Nicolau?

The threat of an illegal job action will bring the wrath of more federal judges. Then you guys will learn what the RLA is all about.

So what leverage do you have if the company stands on Nicolau?

 

[Phoenix]

...

So what leverage do you have if the company stands on Nicolau?

You have two choices.

1. Petition your union that is negotiating your next contract.

2. Petition your company that is negotiating your next contract.

Throwing pennies in the fountain won't have any effect.

 

[cleardirect]

Man, that must have been some primo blue agave. You should really know your limit. You think the company would risk a job action over you guys? Pilots really do have an inflated sense of self worth.

You mean like east pilots thinking that the company cares what your reaction would be and would change the offer?

So that's the big lever that usapa has to get something other than what the company offers. An illegal job action. That is all you guys have. It think that you are missing the point here. Parker has not caved to any threats so far. He has tolerated childish behavior from the east so far. Try an illegal job action and see how your world lights up.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You mean like east pilots thinking that the company cares what your reaction would be and would change the offer?

So that's the big lever that usapa has to get something other than what the company offers. An illegal job action. That is all you guys have. It think that you are missing the point here. Parker has not caved to any threats so far. He has tolerated childish behavior from the east so far. Try an illegal job action and see how your world lights up.

Who said ANYTHING about illegal? There is a legal RLA process which can result in the union performing "self help". Nobody likes it, but it has to be considered in the event that all other avenues fail..

The East side has abided within the law, honorably, throughout this entire ordeal. More than can be said about the feces mailing, phone line plugging, legal bill not paying, soon to be bankrupt West guys.

Give it up; it's over. NIC is dead. FINALLY!

 

[Barrister]

Read my question carefully. You say the company "could" accept many lists. They could also accept many pay scales or retirement packages. I said what if the company decides not to accept anything else but Nicolau? usapa is negotiating for seniorty and crew meals.

What is usapa going to do? What leverge does usapa have to get anything but Nicolau?

The threat of an illegal job action will bring the wrath of more federal judges. Then you guys will learn what the RLA is all about.

So what leverage do you have if the company stands on Nicolau?

Clear, read the opinion. See for yourself. Parker is off the hook now.

NPJB

 

[AWE Dog]

It appears to me after reading some comments that Mike Cleary's President's letter published yesterday appears to lack vision and could not have been reviewed by his legal team before it was distributed. From USAPA's perspective his ill-advised injudicious letter he has given advanced "in-your-face" testimony to the Full 11-Member Ninth Circuit Court illustrating USAPA is going to continue on their "unquestionably ripe (for) DFR" self-destructive negotiating path.

Cleary said, "This decision allows USAPA, which represents all US Airways pilots, to freely bargain for the terms of its seniority integration."

However, Judge Bybee's dissenting opinion states, "One does not have to await the consummation of threatened injury to obtain preventative relief. If the injury is certainly impending, that is enough."”

Cleary' comment leaves little room for the Full 9th to doubt that injury to the West pilots is certainly impending and supports Bybee's opinion that injury is certainly pending when Cleary states in his letter that, "The decision allows USAPA to freely bargain for the terms of its seniority integration."

All of which could lead to a reversal of the majority opinion and upholding of the decision of the District court, when the Plaintiffs petition the 9th Circuit to hear the case en banc. Then when the Full 9th Circuit rules we may find out that Cleary couldn' have been more wrong when he said, "with the Company's recent demonstration of renewed motivation and cooperation, coupled with a resolution of this case, many of the significant impediments we faced in gaining a contract have been removed."

The Addington case is not resolved nor will it be any time soon. Therefore, it appears that the impediments to a contract have not been removed and Cleary just supported Judge Bybee' opinion, which will obviously be noted by the Full Ninth Circuit Court, and again, could cause a reversal of the majority opinion and upholding of the decision of the District Court. I'm sure Marty Harper has already taken note of this, and if I was a USAPA supporter, I could not be more upset with Cleary' actions.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Total waste of Time.

 

[AWE Dog]

I suggest rolling out the URANIUM badge backers for the Addington en banc. Suitable for the OVER REACTION and subsequent MELTDOWN

Badge backers new meaning: Look how dumb I am , I actually gave money to back a unripe suit.

 

[cleardirect]

Clear, read the opinion. See for yourself. Parker is off the hook now.

NPJB

What hook. He now has to make a decision that he has been avoiding.

He has to decide if he is going to live up to his word that he accepted the Nicolau. He is going to have to decide if he is going to make the east buy something less than the Nicolau. He is going to have to decide if being dragged into the next DFR suit is worth it.

What don't you guys get. The company is never going to agree to go back to line bidding. PBS is coming your way not a thing you can do about it. No PBS no contract.

Seniority is the same thing. What if Parker decides that no Nicolau no contract. What is usapa going to do?

You are back to square one from usapa promise. That they can negotiate seniority like a crew. What happens if usapa is not a very good negotiator? Jerry Glass has eaten your lunch before and he will do it again.

usapa is in a bad spot. No legal impediments to keep usapa from their promise. No ALPA national to blame the failure on. What happens if usapa can not bring a contract with anything other than Nicolau? Who do they blame then?

So after four years usapa finally brings a contract with the Nicolau, was it all worth it? The delay. the money wasted and lost?