US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Barrister]

I believe that you would be wrong. The ruling happened on Friday. Prior to this usapa was precluded from turning over a DOH list. They tried but the company would not even touch it. So no the company does not have a DOH list.

The two sides did not meet today so just when would the union have turned over this gem? You really think that usapa is going to give the company a DOH list?

Seham argued 5 issued. Are you telling me that the court chose to ignore 4 other issues?

Come on clear....you know better than that. Bad time to play dumb. Ripeness made all other issues MOOT. It's like a Verdict form.
Once you check the blank reading:

Defendant WAS NOT liable for damages to Plaintiff you need not read any further!!!

NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

Who said ANYTHING about illegal? There is a legal RLA process which can result in the union performing "self help". Nobody likes it, but it has to be considered in the event that all other avenues fail..

The East side has abided within the law, honorably, throughout this entire ordeal. More than can be said about the feces mailing, phone line plugging, legal bill not paying, soon to be bankrupt West guys.

Give it up; it's over. NIC is dead. FINALLY!

You think Nicolau is dead. Do you have a guess when usapa will pass that gold standard list to the company? Will it be this week? Will it be this year?

You think that you are going to get released over seniority? How cute.

What do you think strike vote would look like? 50%, 60% I doubt 70%. That does not send a strong message to the company. Any smart union will not take a strike vote unless they can get 95% or better.

A job action by the east. How would Parker know?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You think Nicolau is dead. Do you have a guess when usapa will pass that gold standard list to the company? Will it be this week? Will it be this year?

You think that you are going to get released over seniority? How cute.

What do you think strike vote would look like? 50%, 60% I doubt 70%. That does not send a strong message to the company. Any smart union will not take a strike vote unless they can get 95% or better.

A job action by the east. How would Parker know?

You guys are too new to the industry to even know how the RLA negotiating process works. The folks that DO know are just laughing at your post.

Grow up. It's over. I knew the case was gonna be tossed, because I still believe in the US justice system (for the most part), and I knew the Addison case was WRONG on many levels. SSM&P knew it, and so did Baptiste & Wilder, ALPA's own attorneys. Both are probably unequalled in their knowledge of RLA law.

 

[Barrister]

What hook. He now has to make a decision that he has been avoiding.

He has to decide if he is going to live up to his word that he accepted the Nicolau. He is going to have to decide if he is going to make the east buy something less than the Nicolau. He is going to have to decide if being dragged into the next DFR suit is worth it.

What don't you guys get. The company is never going to agree to go back to line bidding. PBS is coming your way not a thing you can do about it. No PBS no contract.

Seniority is the same thing. What if Parker decides that no Nicolau no contract. What is usapa going to do?

You are back to square one from usapa promise. That they can negotiate seniority like a crew. What happens if usapa is not a very good negotiator? Jerry Glass has eaten your lunch before and he will do it again.

usapa is in a bad spot. No legal impediments to keep usapa from their promise. No ALPA national to blame the failure on. What happens if usapa can not bring a contract with anything other than Nicolau? Who do they blame then?

So after four years usapa finally brings a contract with the Nicolau, was it all worth it? The delay. the money wasted and lost?

Clear,
Done schooling you my boy. Parker accepted the NIC because at that time ALPA was the CBA.
Legal told him to do it and he did. Parker will protect the Corp. NOT you and NOT me. You think
he will stand on ceremony and now say to the BOD and ALL of his employees, Sorry, I am morally
bound to NIC. Negotiations will now start. You can either be at the table or not. Start thinking about
what you need out of this to be happy. Hopefully it won't be to check out as a Captain before someone
who has been here 10-15 years longer than you. That won't happen. If USAPA doesn't modify it's DOH
and CRs then may be it winds up in court again. The next trial won't be in PHX and it years away. I'll leave
you with this. Mergers suck. We have eaten the crap pie for years ALL BECAUSE OF MERGERS AND IDIOT MANAGERS
and have learned to tolerate it. Not your fault but get used to the fact that the longer you are in this business
the better the odds are that something will happen to you totally out of your control and it will suck. Most of us
will be gone in 5-10 years and you can have it all to yourself. But until then be patient, find something else that makes you happy and forget NIC, she is
an old girlfriend that doesn't want to see you anymore. It sucks but you will live.

NPJB

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

Lots and lots of chest pounding going on.

Now usapa has to actually negotiate a contract.

There are a lot of wants and only so much to give.

Let's see the 'pros from Dover' actually put something out to vote on.

We can argue this legal crap until we run out of electrons and we still won't have anything.

The east is in control so show us what you got, the world is watching, you promised a quick win with nothing but gains.

Have at it boys....

 

[Hate2fly]

Badge backers new meaning: Look how dumb I am , I actually gave money to back a unripe suit.

Yo Dog,

The westies never understood what J. Freund was telling them. The risk was all on the west side. ALPA =Nicolau...........No ALPA = No Nic.....period! This was an internal union conflict Freund told the westies this at Wye River and they sent him home. Everyone one on this board from the westie side still does not understand that this was a private arbitration within ALPA. This is the reason ALPA couldn't do any thing with this abortion. Your west co-founders still don't understand private arbitration! The MDA law suit is about to blow ALPA out of the water. The 9th understands that the desert judge was way out of bounds. Bush boy, anti-labor Wake did not understand the RLA. Mister ASU law and your Texas legal eagle co-founders just got spanked in a big way by the 9th. Bybee is a joke! Like anyone cares what this guy has to say. How much money did you westies blow on this premature adjudication? You guys got spanked big time by Seham. We told you guys all along to read the Bap&Wilder blog.........MV got spanked big time by B. Wilder. The west was always younger and smarter than everybody.

Hate

 

[cleardirect]

You guys are too new to the industry to even know how the RLA negotiating process functions. The folks that DO know are just laughing at your post.

Grow up. It's over. I knew the case was gonna be tossed, because I still believe in the US justice system (for the most part), and I knew the Addison case was WRONG on many levels. SSM&P knew it, and so did Baptiste & Wilder, ALPA's own attorneys. Both are probably unequalled in their knowledge of RLA law.

Oh wise and knowledgeable yoda. Please help us new comers.

Care to pick a date the NMB will release usapa?
Care to make a guess at the strike vote count? Perhaps you think that the BPR will be willing to speak for the entire pilot group and not put the strike decision out to the line pilots.

Maybe you can put on a short class here and explain the steps to being released for self help. You know to help the uneducated masses. What does it take for the NMB to release you to job action?

Explain you work.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Oh wise and knowledgeable yoda. Please help us new comers.

Care to pick a date the NMB will release usapa?
Care to make a guess at the strike vote count? Perhaps you think that the BPR will be willing to speak for the entire pilot group and not put the strike decision out to the line pilots.

Maybe you can put on a short class here and explain the steps to being released for self help. You know to help the uneducated masses. What does it take for the NMB to release you to job action?

Explain you work.

NOBODY wants a job action. Not you, not me, not USAPA, not the company. But it's there if we need it.

To use another movie quote "stupid is as stupid does". Don't be stupid.

You can't honestly say that you thought you were gonna be able to take the seat and job of someone that's been here YEARS longer than yourself. You know you didn't, I don't care what you say here. If you did, just reread the quote.

And, yes, I do expect the BPR to speak for ALL USAPA pilots. Just don't expect them to ruin 2/3 of the pilots' careers to give the other 1/3 a "lottery ticket" win.

 

[Hate2fly]

Lots and lots of chest pounding going on.

Now usapa has to actually negotiate a contract.

There are a lot of wants and only so much to give.

Let's see the 'pros from Dover' actually put something out to vote on.

We can argue this legal crap until we run out of electrons and we still won't have anything.

The east is in control so show us what you got, the world is watching, you promised a quick win with nothing but gains.

Have at it boys....

Chuck,

What do you think of permanent separate operations? You will get to keep everything you brought to the merger. AWA was a world class outfit. PHX is an absolute powerhouse hub with tremendous growth potential. Enjoy!

Hate

 

[RSVP767]

Just to highlight how much more proffesional the West pilot group is compared to the east,

Proffesional? And don't forget educated too......or would that be edjucated?

 

[cleardirect]

Yo Dog,

The westies never understood what J. Freund was telling them. The risk was all on the west side. ALPA =Nicolau...........No ALPA = No Nic.....period! This was an internal union conflict Freund told the westies this at Wye River and they sent him home. Everyone one on this board from the westie side still does not understand that this was a private arbitration within ALPA. This is the reason ALPA couldn't do any thing with this abortion. Your west co-founders still don't understand private arbitration! The MDA law suit is about to blow ALPA out of the water. The 9th understands that the desert judge was way out of bounds. Bush boy, anti-labor Wake did not understand the RLA. Mister ASU law and your Texas legal eagle co-founders just got spanked in a big way by the 9th. Bybee is a joke! Like anyone cares what this guy has to say. How much money did you westies blow on this premature adjudication? You guys got spanked big time by Seham. We told you guys all along to read the Bap&Wilder blog.........MV got spanked big time by B. Wilder. The west was always younger and smarter than everybody.

Hate

Attack, attack attack, insult, insult, insult.

So where is this shining example of legal research for the MDA case? Still not posted on the pacer web site. Still have not seen the order extending the deadline. Anyone, anyone care to post this.

So what it blows ALPA out of the water. We are not ALPA. No one will explain how this has any effect on us airways and seniority.

You all keep saying the Nicolau dead. No Nicolau, no harm to MDA, no case. Please explain this. If you all are so certain that you are going to get DOH where is your harm from an alleged incorrect list? No harm, no case. No contract with the Nicolau, no harm not ripe, no case.

Somebody explain this.

Links to the filing links to the order delaying the deadline please.


This appears to be a desperate attempt to collect some last minute money before this case is DISMISSED. No information just more promises.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Here's another point: ALPA pilots should be VERY thankful this is ending the way it is, because it will FINALLY force ALPA to come up with a real merger policy. Sending your "dirty laundry" to an arbitrator is NOT a "merger policy". Just knowing that if they foul it up again that they can be decertified, and that the new CBA may prove to be far more capable than the monstrosity that calls itself the "world's largest pilot's union, should scare them into coming up with something equitable.

There's no doubt about it. ALPA really sucks!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Attack, attack attack, insult, insult, insult.

So where is this shining example of legal research for the MDA case? Still not posted on the pacer web site. Still have not seen the order extending the deadline. Anyone, anyone care to post this.

So what it blows ALPA out of the water. We are not ALPA. No one will explain how this has any effect on us airways and seniority.

You all keep saying the Nicolau dead. No Nicolau, no harm to MDA, no case. Please explain this. If you all are so certain that you are going to get DOH where is your harm from an alleged incorrect list? No harm, no case. No contract with the Nicolau, no harm not ripe, no case.

Somebody explain this.

Links to the filing links to the order delaying the deadline please.


This appears to be a desperate attempt to collect some last minute money before this case is DISMISSED. No information just more promises.

It's called the first stage of grief, my boy. DENIAL. Take some time off, rest, cry a little if you must, but this too shall pass.

I actually think it's been rather civil on this board of late. Ever since some folks started yanking down their websites and hiding from their legal bills it been rather pleasant.

 

[cleardirect]

You have two choices.

1. Petition your union that is negotiating your next contract.

2. Petition your company that is negotiating your next contract.

Throwing pennies in the fountain won't have any effect.

I think I have seen this movie before. The east pilots petition thier union and demand DOH for the USA/AWA merger. They continue to demand DOH through the process. The arbitrator tells the east pilots you are not going to get DOH. East pilot continue to petition their union for DOH.

In the end you do not get what you want.

The east pilots petition (demand) their union get DOH from the company. The company continues to say no. The pilots petition the union again for DOH but have no leverage or anything the company wants to trade for DOH. In the end no DOH and no contract.

You can petition all you want. You can continue to demand all you want but it is not going to change the outcome. Do you really think that the current union leadership does not know what the east pilots want? It is going to take a new leader to tell the pilots what they can get. The union can not get DOH. Better start to petition for something else.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I think I have seen this movie before. The east pilots petition thier union and demand DOH for the USA/AWA merger. They continue to demand DOH through the process. The arbitrator tells the east pilots you are not going to get DOH. East pilot continue to petition their union for DOH.

In the end you do not get what you want.

The east pilots petition (demand) their union get DOH from the company. The company continues to say no. The pilots petition the union again for DOH but have no leverage or anything the company wants to trade for DOH. In the end no DOH and no contract.

You can petition all you want. You can continue to demand all you want but it is not going to change the outcome. Do you really think that the current union leadership does not know what the east pilots want? It is going to take a new leader to tell the pilots what they can get. The union can not get DOH. Better start to petition for something else.

Somebody pass the kleenex box. When Clear finally makes it to stage 4 (depression), it's gonna be a gusher!