US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

But it does not have to be.

If we go into another merger it will not be DOH under AM/M&B


What will you guys do if we merge again and you don't get what you again? You would be the minority in the next round. Willing to accept whatever the majority forces on you? They think it is fair and they get to decide. At least that is what usapa is saying.

For the sake of the argument, if as you say M&B is DOH. Would DAL/UAL/AA be able to ignore binding arbitration under M&B if they don't like the outcome.

If there is another merge? If it involves Change of Control, step one is to collect the cash. Then we will worry about step 2.

 

[233KILLS]

Are you even familiar how this airline has merged? Allegheny Lake Central, Alleg. Mohawk, USAir PSA USAir Piedmont all date of hire. Allegheny -Mohawk is a textbook example in the NAA handbook. Cited as one of the fairest methods out there. We have a history of the most and most fair mergers, aside from this abortion. Now you want to claim this as being fair? The East understands a lot more than you or the West. Show me another textbook of a Nic type deal. The one that was so bad it exploded the union and kept a company from merging.I would imagine that you will see the Nic soon in the handbook as a textbook example of a failed integration.Not to be attempted or repeated.Mergers? We understand a lot more than you do. And by the way, UAL stacks up pretty badly against Continental. The pilots there are none too happy about joining your group.

So how did Trump and USair go together? What about DAL / NWA?

 

[AWE Dog]

If there is another merge? If it involves Change of Control, step one is to collect the cash. Then we will worry about step 2.

But Swan, I don't think there is any cash for the west with a change of control. I wouldn't count on the East making the profit sharing mistake again.

 

[AWE Dog]

So how did Trump and USair go together? What about DAL / NWA?

DAL/NWA for the East would be aprox DOH/ -4 years with no C&R's. The NIC is DOH/ -15+ years for most East pilots. Do you think the west would go for the DOH/ -4 years?

 

[Black Swan]

...and yet the DAL/NWA merger is considered the best, using the same merger policy you used. What is the difference? Different union? Nope. Different people running the MEC's? Yes. Is it ALPA's problem or is it your problem?

Re cleared, direct Milan. Mach .85 Frequency change, approved................

 

[RSVP767]

Finally, an east poster who got something right.

Now ask yourself, what have they already picked? Or more precisely, what are they contractually obligated to do?

They are obligated to negotiate with the current Collective Bargaining Agent........USAPA.

 

[luvthe9]

If there is another merge? If it involves Change of Control, step one is to collect the cash. Then we will worry about step 2.

No, they don't have the Cof C provision. Well, since they are going to sue us again, and collect damages like they did in Addington, then we better hold on to it ourselves....

 

[luvthe9]

So how did Trump and USair go together? What about DAL / NWA?

Our ALPA brother Kirch picked NICOLAU on this one too. First ever non DOH merge in company history. Another reason the ALPA brothers got the door. They dropped DOH because of some ALPA inside deal.

 

[cleardirect]

They are obligated to negotiate with the current Collective Bargaining Agent........USAPA.

Yep negotiate. That does not mean that usapa can get anything other than the Nicolau. What does usapa do if the company's position is the Nicolau? Are you going to buy DOH by giving away the rest of the contract? Instant DFR because the west gets nothing from that deal.

What if the company says they don't want to be sued and ask for a $100 million bond from usapa in case of a law suit? What if the company takes a stand like PBS and says no contract unless it has PBS and the Nicolau? What will usapa do? What leverage does usapa have?

Does the NC even have the ablity to negotiate? Anything.

WWUD= What will usapa do

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Yep negotiate. That does not mean that usapa can get anything other than the Nicolau. What does usapa do if the company's position is the Nicolau? Are you going to buy DOH by giving away the rest of the contract? Instant DFR because the west gets nothing from that deal.

What if the company says they don't want to be sued and ask for a $100 million bond from usapa in case of a law suit? What if the company takes a stand like PBS and says no contract unless it has PBS and the Nicolau? What will usapa do? What leverage does usapa have?

Does the NC even have the ablity to negotiate? Anything.

WWUD= What will usapa do

Still in DENIAL. Don't worry, you'll get over it when you finally see the reality.

 

[cleardirect]

Our ALPA brother Kirch picked NICOLAU on this one too. First ever non DOH merge in company history. Another reason the ALPA brothers got the door. They dropped DOH because of some ALPA inside deal.

Tell us. What was the gold standard integration position of the east pilots during the trump merger?

DOH? NO!

W-2. How much did you make, that is where you would be put on the list. Care to use the method with this merger?


Inside deal. Yep the trump guys had better DOH seniority so they changed it.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Tell us. What was the gold standard integration position of the east pilots during the trump merger?

DOH? NO!

W-2. How much did you make, that is where you would be put on the list. Care to use the method with this merger?


Inside deal. Yep the trump guys had better DOH seniority so they changed it.

Absolutely incorrect. At the time of that merger, U pilots were among, if not the, best paid in the industry. Trump was far from it.

 

[cleardirect]

Still in DENIAL. Don't worry, you'll get over it when you finally see the reality.

So the company is just going to give you DOH? Is that your reality? Good luck with that.

The company is not going to give us anything. You guys have signaled what the most important thing in the contract is to you. Seniority. If the company does move off of the Nicolau Parker is going to make you buy it. And it is going to be expensive. Anything that you give away to buy seniority is less money for the west. Less money, less seniority, less fair. Bigger damages at the DFR trial.

That is the reality.

 

[cleardirect]

Absolutely incorrect. At the time of that merger, U pilots were among, if not the, best paid in the industry. Trump was far from it.

That is exactly my point. Us pilots were well paid the trump guys were not. That would have pushed Trump down the seniority list. A trump captain made less than a us F/O.

How about that gold standard? DOH. Not so much when it goes against you.

In the us/AWA merger willing to use W-2’s as the method this time?

I didn’t think so.

 

[LSS]

So the company is just going to give you DOH? Is that your reality? Good luck with that.

The company is not going to give us anything. You guys have signaled what the most important thing in the contract is to you. Seniority. If the company does move off of the Nicolau Parker is going to make you buy it. And it is going to be expensive. Anything that you give away to buy seniority is less money for the west. Less money, less seniority, less fair. Bigger damages at the DFR trial.

That is the reality.

You're forgetting one big thing... no contract... no merger... no one would touch this pig until this is all settled... and you can take that to the bank... and Doug is none too happy sitting on the sidelines not being a player....