US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvn737s]

"Looking through you with disdain?" Excuse me, but isn't it your group that had no benefits and pension, and helped all the Lorenzo s of the world model the new order after you? Well, it finally happened. You are very familiar with that look of disdain, as it was cast to your group for years. You have brought everyone else down also. Congratulations. Cast your warring glances inward. That is the place they belong.

Our group was the one that adapted to the new realities of the industry. We survived only to be dragged into the tar pits with the dinosaurs that caused their own extinction.

Are today's sucessful airlines more like the AWA model or the rusty US one that only operates as long as the employees are paid bankruptcy wages?

 

[BoeingBoy]

The nic is not relative position, is it? Are those top 517 relative position? How about he bottom 1500 or so?

The Nic is based on relative position. The top 517 represent the widebody jobs reserved for those pilots for 5 years (a C&R) and the bottom is former furloughed (brought no job to the merger), CEL, and post-merger new hires.

Did you catch the post where I called sum for calling a certain west poster that I respect? I guess not.

I did, so there goes your guess...

Have you apologized to the pilot you falsely outed?

You're the only one that claims any "falsely"...

Go back to where you were for a few weeks.

I'm still there, another loss for your "all knowing" fantasy....

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

A Grievance Committee Without the Skills to Resolve Grievances

Dear Subscriber,

Update for June 20, 2011:

Quick Fact #177: A Grievance Committee Without the Skills to Resolve the Pilots' Grievances. Much Like the way USAPA's approach to conflict resolution centers on Fruitless but expensive Law Suits and Legal Challenges, USAPA's Grievance Committee also lacks the capacity to resolve pilots issues. Grievance arbitration takes the responsibility for the result out of the hands (and responsibility) of the Grievance Committee (remember the quote: "Let the Judge Decide', the mentality lives on). It's as though every simple issue needs to be resolved by the local equivalent of the Supreme Court, because there is no willpower amongst the Committee to defend a result that might suggest a compromise. With 400+ Grievances and the USAPA capacity to arbitrate no more than 9 per year, good luck getting your issue resolved by USAPA.

Management refusing to agree to USAPA's interpretation of the contract, and USAPA's grievance remedy, doesn't make management wrong or USAPA right.

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Three years of USAPA and nothing to show for it. Will you retire without seeing another raise because USAPA can't get it done?

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[traderjake]

http://www2.airliners.net/photo/938630/L/

what's different about this picture?

 

[luvthe9]

These scabs more resemble organized crime with each passing day.

I think the crime is what your friend Kirby did on a couple of flights, huh?

 

[Pi brat]

The Nic is based on relative position. The top 517 represent the widebody jobs reserved for those pilots for 5 years (a C&R) and the bottom is former furloughed (brought no job to the merger), CEL, and post-merger new hires.



I did, so there goes your guess...



You're the only one that claims any "falsely"...



I'm still there, another loss for your "all knowing" fantasy....

Jim

You are a waste of air, you know it?

"Based on" is not "is". The nic is a hybrid DOH/slot/staple.

So you saw me take on sum, yet you claim that I support him. By not being able to say you are wrong you prove yourself a liar.

The guy that you falsely outed said you got it wrong. Maybe you didn't see his post before they were all pulled.

I've NEVER said I was all knowing-another lie.

 

[Pi brat]

Our group was the one that adapted to the new realities of the industry. We survived only to be dragged into the tar pits with the dinosaurs that caused their own extinction.

Are today's sucessful airlines more like the AWA model or the rusty US one that only operates as long as the employees are paid bankruptcy wages?

Are you kidding? AWA was the model of surviving by paying bankruptcy wages. You guys wrote the play book, Parker brags about it at just about every crew news. You guys, or some I should say, are about the most delusional bunch I have ever seen about what you were. If someone didn't know where you came from they would think it was SWA from hearing you talk.

 

[767one]

http://www2.airliners.net/photo/938630/L/

what's different about this picture?

Would it be the main gear trucks?


Regards,


Bob

 

[traderjake]

"Based on" is not "is". The nic is a hybrid DOH/slot/staple.

It "is" slotting by equipment and status with the WB Captains and F/Os slotted at the top.

 

[prechilill]

You are a waste of air, you know it?

"Based on" is not "is". The nic is a hybrid DOH/slot/staple.

So you saw me take on sum, yet you claim that I support him. By not being able to say you are wrong you prove yourself a liar.

The guy that you falsely outed said you got it wrong. Maybe you didn't see his post before they were all pulled.

I've NEVER said I was all knowing-another lie.

Somebody needs another vacation...

A dose of reality is getting to you again

 

[Pi brat]

Somebody needs another vacation...

A dose of reality is getting to you again

That he is a complete ahole, yeah it's getting to me.

Hurts seeing you Messiah corrected, doesn't it?

 

[Pi brat]

It "is" slotting by equipment and status with the WB Captains and F/Os slotted at the top.

No Jake, it isn't. There are no WB F/Os slotted at the top unless they are in the 517. Nic used their positions to put a larger number of east guys on top, but their positions weren't slotted, they were DOH stapled on top. After that it is, except that the MDA guys weren't slotted at all, they were stapled. Were Republics EMB pilots stapled behind the Frontier AB pilots?

 

[traderjake]

No Jake, it isn't. There are no WB F/Os slotted at the top unless they are in the 517. Nic used their positions to put a larger number of east guys on top, but their positions weren't slotted, they were DOH stapled on top. After that it is, except that the MDA guys weren't slotted at all, they were stapled. Were Republics EMB pilots stapled behind the Frontier AB pilots?

Please go back and reread the award.

The number of East Wide Body Captain and First Officer positions, 517, were reserved for the first 517 East pilots regardless of what position they actually held.

There is no DOH in the award.

The guys who held no mainline position were of course put at the bottom of the list.

 

[nevergiveup]

The Nic is based on relative position. The top 517 represent the widebody jobs reserved for those pilots for 5 years (a C&R) and the bottom is former furloughed (brought no job to the merger), CEL, and post-merger new hires.



I did, so there goes your guess...



You're the only one that claims any "falsely"...



I'm still there, another loss for your "all knowing" fantasy....

Jim

The NIC is probably the worst I have ever seen. No credit for years of service, windfalls, wrong list. Lacks consistency. Will not work. Look what it has done so far! If used, would put the airline out of business.

 

[Pi brat]

Please go back and reread the award.

The number of East Wide Body Captain and First Officer positions, 517, were reserved for the first 517 East pilots regardless of what position they actually held.

There is no DOH in the award.

Don't tell me to go read anything. I just read it,again, yesterday. I know what he did, but that is not slotting by equipment at the top. His method of "protecting" the widebodies in reality just gave some east AB and 737 captains super seniority over what the more junior AB and 737 captains got. IMHO it was a screwed up way of protecting widebody flying that hurt west senior pilots.

The top 517 are in DOH order from the east. The rest are slotted, until you get to the "furloughed", and as it turns out many of the weren't actually furloughed, and they were stapled. As it turns out, they actually were mainline positions, even if they were not originally intended to be. How about Republic and Frontier? Were only the "mainline" EMB pilots the ones on the top?

Are those top 517 reserved for life? Will you make it to one?

Maybe you should read page 26 of the award, where Nic talks about DOH.

This started from what Jim said to me, it was not intended to be a rehash of the Nic.