US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Freighterguynow]

No matter how you meant it, it is USAPA's C&R's in a nutshell. Ensure that East has access to all attrition
Jim

No, the East pilots get East attrition while the West gets theirs. Anything less will not pass membership ratification - I really can't make it any more simple.

Or, we can spend the next 4 years bickering which is fine by me.

 

[No Land Green]

Barbell Acquisition Corp....

 

[traderjake]

If it weren't a windfall, the disagreement wouldn't be so divided. If everyone were equally "PO'd" at the deal, it would not be a windfall. The fact that it divided the groups is the best way to demonstrate that it IS, INDEED, a windfall.

It wasn't a windfall because the two previous seniority arbitrations went exactly the same way, slotting by equipment and status.

The fact the the East is PO'd proves our incompetance and lack of ethics.

 

[cactusboy53]

I was there, live and in person. I did take some pictures but no video. Nothing really very interesting was there just thousands of square feet of unproductive space. I did see that most of the executives had individual private rest rooms and the CEO's office also included a private shower with furnishing suitable for a five-star resort.

It’s been five years, but if I remember correctly I saw the empty reception and security stations on the first floor, the IT and HR departments on the second, EDS was on the third floor, Corporate Real Estate was on the fourth floor, the executive suites, board room and legal were on the eighth floor, and sales was on the ninth floor. I can’t remember what else was there, but I can tell you that for every live body working in the building there were at least 50 unoccupied, long departed workspaces just waiting for a liquidation company to come in and clean the place out.

Now you've done Cal. They will demand to see the pictures. Then after scrutinizing the pictures, USAPA will pay some photo tech firm tens of thousands of dollars to prove they are fake. They will then accuse you of touching up the photos, call you a liar, espouse their revisionist history, claim that AAA saved AWA from the literal brink of airline extinction, tell you that no matter what a contract with the Nic will NEVER pass (so there is no point in trying), that DOH with conditions & restrictions is really better for all US Airways pilots, and ask you to kiss Cleary's ring.

 

[BoeingBoy]

No, the East pilots get East attrition while the West gets theirs. Anything less will not pass membership ratification - I really can't make it any more simple.

I think we're talking about two different things - you about separate ops and me about what USAPA wants in the contract that the East thinks would be ratified. USAPA's C&R's guarantee that East pilots will be able to bid into PHX while West pilots will be trapped in PHX sliding backwards as East pilots move in. So a ratified contract that meets USAPA's demands would allow East pilots to capture not only East attrition movement but also West attrition trickle down movement.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Barbell Acquisition Corp....

A shell game to get around the East change of control language. I think you'll find that a number of "old" US execs got their change of control payments.

Jim

 

[Hate2fly]

We all know that AWA was one of the premier flying establishments. They had some of the best pay and benefits in the industry. The AWA pilots retirement was unbelievable! They had power house hubs in PHX and LAS! How about those wide body airplanes? Every pilot I have ever met wanted to fly for them. I think it was that professional call sign. Cactus

All of us in the east pinch our selves on a daily basis............we feel like we hit the lottery working for team tempe.

Yep, that about sums it up........nothing but the best!

Hate

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Barbell Acquisition Corp....

ZANZIBAR, 2watts JIM!

 

[cleardirect]

Okay then. Asnwer me this. If the financial health were all you say, why would the management of the "new" company start immediately shifting operations from the west to the east, as you seem to be complaining about? Did they intentionally try to dmage the "new" company, or were economic conditions and business prospects better east?

Also, the "old" US Airways didn't cease to exist just because of chapter 11, it was "reorganized" under chapter 11 of the bankruptcy code. Some of the old creditors remained, and some of the old stockholders and bondholders remained.

Why did the new corp shift things to the east? Because US Airways had cut everything to the bone to survive just one more day. How much money did LCC have to spend in PHL replacing trashed equipment?

It was not because they were trying to grow the east it was because they had to fix the east. Just like buying a house from foreclosure. The former tenets trashed the place and sold everything of value to stay just a little longer. It cost you a lot of money to make it workable again.

 

[BoeingBoy]

ZANZIBAR, 2watts JIM!

Golly - it took all 2 watts to type in all caps? A yes or no answer will suffice - was ZANZIBAR ever used?

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

We all know that AWA was one of the premier flying establishments. They had some of the best pay and benefits in the industry. The AWA pilots retirement was unbelievable! They had power house hubs in PHX and LAS! How about those wide body airplanes? Every pilot I have ever met wanted to fly for them. I think it was that professional call sign. Cactus

All of us in the east pinch our selves on a daily basis............we feel like we hit the lottery working for team tempe.

Yep, that about sums it up........nothing but the best!

Hate

HATE, that makes me furious when you say that, they keep us from their compensation, benefits, and the growth opportunities of PHX, LAS, nonetheless bar us from any attrition that would help our piece of s%^$ , carreer's, and they are messing with us, I should have quit years ago, and tried to get a job there, I told you every airline wanted to acquire what they have but no, I feel so grateful to them, remember "Don't Hate Celebrate"!! MM!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

If your an at will employee your not covered under the RLA nor are unionized.

And go look up ACA vs AMFA, AMFA lost a court case that a newly organized group is not under the "status quo"

And guess who lost the case? None other than Lee Seham.

The NMB does not approve or disapprove CBA's under the RLA. I have been on two different Negotiating Committees and we never ever sent the TA to the NMB to approve. And one of them was mediated talks.

I dont know where your getting your information, but your totally misinformed.

Go ask NWA, they imposed terms, I have proved that to you over and over, I even provided a link to the NMB where it is even stated.

Keep trying

Information

Dont bring a water fun to the fight at the OK Corral, because you have no idea of what your talking about.

The union filed suit against ACA seeking a DJ and lost:

Absolutely WRONG. If you are in one of the industries covered by the RLA, it does not matter whether you are unionized or not. You STILL are regulated under the RLA. Ask the Delta FAs:

SUBCHAPTER II-CARRIERS BY AIR

SUBCHAPTER REFERRED TO IN OTHER SECTIONS

This subchapter is referred to in title 26 section 410; title 29 section 213; title 49 App. section 1371.

§ 181. Application of subchapter I to carriers by air

All of the provisions of subchapter I of this chapter except section 153 of this title are extended to and shall cover every common carrier by air engaged in interstate or foreign commerce, and every carrier by air transporting mail for or under contract with the United States Government, and every air pilot or other person who performs any work as an employee or subordinate official of such carrier or carriers, subject to its or their continuing authority to supervise and direct the manner of rendition of his service.

(May 20, 1926, ch. 347, §201, as added Apr. 10, 1936, ch. 166, 49 Stat. 1189.)



You need to do your homework.

Things imposed under bankruptcy operations are something entirely different. Once the company emerges, it is governed by an agreement under the RLA. It may be the imposed rules until a new agreement can be negotiated, but it is an agreement.

 

[cleardirect]

ZANZIBAR, 2watts JIM!

So you have come back around to zanzibar. Yesterday it was fragmentation what will it be tomorrow?

Fact. US Air was in BK AWA was not. Let it go man let it go.

 

[pilot]

Why did the new corp shift things to the east? Because US Airways had cut everything to the bone to survive just one more day. How much money did LCC have to spend in PHL replacing trashed equipment?

It was not because they were trying to grow the east it was because they had to fix the east. Just like buying a house from foreclosure. The former tenets trashed the place and sold everything of value to stay just a little longer. It cost you a lot of money to make it workable again.

Hard to believe. Truly. Clueless.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

So you have come back around to zanzibar. Yesterday it was fragmentation what will it be tomorrow?

Fact. US Air was in BK AWA was not. Let it go man let it go.

The difference is US Airways was about to emerge, America West was about to enter.
Clueless, iindeed.