US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

Just to be clear, I fully agree that outside investors funded the merger/acquisition transaction. However, the US reorganization plan based on the Barbell Acquisition plan prepared mainly by Doug and his executive team at AWA, was the only catalyst US had to emerge from bankruptcy. The court, the unsecured creditors and the outside capital investors, and the shareholders of AWA all had to agree to that the merger was a viable pursuit and offered them the greatest return on their investments. No one was lined up to throw more investment dollars at US absent the Barbell plan.

So, in addition to the SEC filings, the other undeniable facts are that 1) the AWA stockholders became the largest block of stockholders in LCC even though AWA was a substantially smaller company by comparison, 2) most of the AWA executive team was retained for the new entity including the Chairman, CEO, President, CFO, CAO, CIO, General Counsel, and a substantial number of other officers of AWA retained their positions while a substantially smaller number of executives of US were retained, and 3) the HQ of the merger entity was transferred to the old AWA HQ. I'm sure there are more examples which simply make no sense if US was the acquirer.

 

[ROACLT]

Welcome back.

Even if the TWA pilots get half of what they are requesting, thats some serious money. The MDA lawsuit could mean still more drain on ALPA's coffers. If ALPA was planning a campaign to bring us back into the fold depending on the LOA93 decision, this development with TWA may mean a card drive will be attempted, regardless how LOA 93 turns out - and possibly sooner than later.

Follow the money.

Actually they are more likely to be internally scrambling to hold on to the member airlines they have. Why would FEDEX pilots who can look and see what the IPA got for their fellow pilots at UPS want to be saddled with ALPA's problems or assessments for an issue that has nothing to do with them. Good look to ALPA getting assessments out of $17,000 dollar a year Mesa and Colgan pilots.

 

[Black Swan]

Actually they are more likely to be internally scrambling to hold on to the member airlines they have. Why would FEDEX pilots who can look and see what the IPA got for their fellow pilots at UPS want to be saddled with ALPA's problems or assessments for an issue that has nothing to do with them. Good look to ALPA getting assessments out of $17,000 dollar a year Mesa and Colgan pilots.

ALPA member for 30 yrs. Until they started waffling in the wind with mergers at the whim of UAL and others. Then the pension. They got what they deserved. A bunch of new kids who couldn't do what was right, and acted like members of Congress. GOODBYE! They got exactly what they deserved with the way the TWA pilots were handled. The west trying to put our furloughed on the bottom and then cry damage. It just isn t going to happen.
Now this company is putting up cameras everywhere, and acting like Lorenzo. This company is going into the toilet. We should have known better with Team Tempe. They took right up after the inept USAir management. They were inept, but did not have the mean streak this group does.
Jamie, looks like you took the prize with your End of ALPA moniker. The most telling on this board. It just might come true, and it never should have happened.
I would imagine FedEx pilots are casting a jaundiced eye at ALPA. They are now the big cash cow. AirTran leaving soon also. There is NOTHING good going for ALPA. It is honestly a shame because I used to back ALPA all the way until the NEXGEN spawn started running it, and couldn t make up their minds what to do.

 

[Black Swan]

i think you mean me....ok...tell me sage, where have i been wrong?

LUVN had a big part in ALPA being launched off this property. Who would know your name and your discussions with him fortold the future! ALL THE RISK LIES WITH THE WEST.........and ALPA!

 

[Black Swan]

NOTICE THE WEST PILOTS JUST RAN TO LICK THEIR WOUNDS AGAIN? IS THERE GOING TO BE AN ALPA CARD DRIVE SO WE CAN GET INTO THE MESS THEY JUST BREWED UP???? :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

[end_of_alpa]

Here’s what the 10-Q for September 30, 2005 says:

Emphasis added


Emphasis added - note that HP's financial statements were presented to the SEC, not US


So US Airways Group had to report a change in accounting policy since it was the surviving accounting entity so that it could match the legacy policy of US. If US had survived as the accounting entity, no change in policy would have been required.


Emphasis added. New/Restated Certificate of Incorporation & Bylaws.


AWA market price was used to value the transaction. AWA incurred acquisition costs in conjunction with the merger.

The SEC filings trump any unofficial statements made or leaps in logic about how this transaction was structured. It was a merger based on a reverse acquisition of US by AWA tHoldings. The penalty for making false filings with the SEC is a nice long stay in a federal prison for the CEO and CFO so these documents have a higher credibility and accuracy standard than anything else you can cite.

I think I see your point here about the restatement. However, what you're trying to imply is that since it's a "new company", which is debatable, that somehow the employees of AWA have accorded an elevated status in comparison to US Airways employees is back to reading Dr. Seuss and the sneetches with stars upon thars.

However, that money that came from AWA, was that YOUR MONEY? Was the money invested in the "new company" your money? Tell me, what money did YOU put in anyway and what's the point?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Just to be clear, I fully agree that outside investors funded the merger/acquisition transaction. However, the US reorganization plan based on the Barbell Acquisition plan prepared mainly by Doug and his executive team at AWA, was the only catalyst US had to emerge from bankruptcy. The court, the unsecured creditors and the outside capital investors, and the shareholders of AWA all had to agree to that the merger was a viable pursuit and offered them the greatest return on their investments. No one was lined up to throw more investment dollars at US absent the Barbell plan.

So, in addition to the SEC filings, the other undeniable facts are that 1) the AWA stockholders became the largest block of stockholders in LCC even though AWA was a substantially smaller company by comparison, 2) most of the AWA executive team was retained for the new entity including the Chairman, CEO, President, CFO, CAO, CIO, General Counsel, and a substantial number of other officers of AWA retained their positions while a substantially smaller number of executives of US were retained, and 3) the HQ of the merger entity was transferred to the old AWA HQ. I'm sure there are more examples which simply make no sense if US was the acquirer.

We now are speaking in small semantically insignificant details since we all are reading from the same page. Now let's finish reading. Again, in my writing in "what's in a name?" doug reveals the other piece of the puzzle: " without the merger, AWA would have had very hi chances of being in BK, I believe it was %80 if he had to give a number. Ok, fine, us airways probably would have been liquidated but where would at have put you in today's market. Over and over at the crew room meeting have Parker and Kirby revealed that AWA would have been limited, at best and probably wouldn't be here right now had it not been for the merger.

So here we go again. Read the transcript....why does it matter?

 

[luvthe9]

We now are speaking in small semantically insignificant details since we all are reading from the same page. Now let's finish reading. Again, in my writing in "what's in a name?" doug reveals the other piece of the puzzle: " without the merger, AWA would have had very hi chances of being in BK, I believe it was %80 if he had to give a number. Ok, fine, us airways probably would have been liquidated but where would at have put you in today's market. Over and over at the crew room meeting have Parker and Kirby revealed that AWA would have been limited, at best and probably wouldn't be here right now had it not been for the merger.

So here we go again. Read the transcript....why does it matter?

Exactly, why does it matter? What matters is the west trying for damage and saying the east formed USAPA for the sole purpose of getting rid of Nic. Here is more evidence of why ALPA is done here. They did to us what they did to TWA, they did to MDA what they did to TWA. As much as the west and Loenides say it was just the Nic, it wasn t. It was ALPA. The Nic was just the last injustice, and the final straw. Thank you TWA pilots for proving the point about why THEY should have dumped ALPA also long ago. Stick with ALPA and you have to file a DFR. They proved the continued danger of association with ALPA, not the Nic.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I think I see your point here about the restatement. However, what you're trying to imply is that since it's a "new company", which is debatable, that somehow the employees of AWA have accorded an elevated status in comparison to US Airways employees is back to reading Dr. Seuss and the sneetches with stars upon thars.

However, that money that came from AWA, was that YOUR MONEY? Was the money invested in the "new company" your money? Tell me, what money did YOU put in anyway and what's the point?

I'm not implying anything other than this transaction was considered a reverse acquisition as was stated in the 10-Q filing. US was the surviving company in name while AWA was the acquiring company in terms of financial reporting and accounting transactions. Other than the officers where HP made out quite a bit better than US, the rest of the employee groups merged as co-equals in terms of position & status. Independent of union-orchestrated SLI processes, a Res agent is a Res agent no matter which company they came from, a CSR is a CSR, a fleet service person is a fleet person, a captain is a captain and so on.

My point is that there is a willful ignorance of what the reorganization plan called for in order for US to emerge from bankruptcy and how merger/acquisition process was really structured. It really means nothing now that it has been completed and all but two work groups have been integrated.

The facts are that there was a merger structured as a reverse acquisition and that one of the many governing documents controlling the merger was a Transition Agreement signed by authorized representatives of both pilot groups. Even in the 10-Q it states that this document will remain in full force until there is a joint CBA covering all pilots of the new company. USAPA and many east pilots somehow think that the TA no longer applies to the SLI process and prefer to think that the west pilots should just be added to their list, which denies the structure of the corporate transaction and the agreement that was entered into by all of the parties involved. That's why this issue keeps coming up and spun by the east to deny the facts.

 

[kubotapilot]

Fyi...The lead attorney in the TWA vs ALPA case is noneother than Mike Haber. Mr. Haber also represents the MDA pilots against ALPA.

 

[luvthe9]

Fyi...The lead attorney in the TWA vs ALPA case is noneother than Mike Haber. Mr. Haber also represents the MDA pilots against ALPA.

Here is to Haber getting justice for MDA pilots. The guys who were never actually furloughed. Victims of an ALPA scheme with complicity of AAA MEC. Another reason they had to go. All of this a scam so the AAA HP deal would fly. The east pilots were damaged to make it happen.

 

[Res Judicata]

Here is to Haber getting justice for MDA pilots. The guys who were never actually furloughed. Victims of an ALPA scheme with complicity of AAA MEC. Another reason they had to go. All of this a scam so the AAA HP deal would fly. The east pilots were damaged to make it happen.

Good luck proving ANY of that!!!!

 

[luvn737s]

Even in circumstances when a uniform
appearance (i.e., hat, shirt) is justified, you
cannot lawfully prohibit employees
from wearing union buttons,
stickers or lanyards unless the
display is unreasonably large or the message
is obscene or otherwise disparaging. From NLRB rules!!!!!!!!!

What does the NLRB have to do with represented employees of an airline?

Did Cleary fill your bubble with that nonsense? 😛

 

[cactusboy53]

Here is to Haber getting justice for MDA pilots. The guys who were never actually furloughed. Victims of an ALPA scheme with complicity of AAA MEC. Another reason they had to go. All of this a scam so the AAA HP deal would fly. The east pilots were damaged to make it happen.

Oh brother.......it just keeps getting deeper and deeper out there in USAPA-land.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

Fyi...The lead attorney in the TWA vs ALPA case is noneother than Mike Haber. Mr. Haber also represents the MDA pilots against ALPA.

Don't see Haber's name mentioned??


July 6, 2011
Pilot class action headed to closing argument

The duty of fair representation class action brought by Green Jacobson on behalf of a class of former TWA pilots against their former union, the Air Line Pilots Association, International (“ALPA”), is heading into its final days. The defendant, ALPA, will present its final witnesses by deposition tomorrow, July 7. Allen Press and Joe Jacobson will present a rebuttal witness on Monday, July 11. The parties will then go immediately into closing argument, followed by the jury instructions, and deliberations.

In an interesting reversal of the practice in Missouri, in New Jersey civil defendants present their closing first, followed by the plaintiffs. Allen’s reaction to the judge’s mention in court today of the practice caused the judge to remark that he looked like he had died and gone to heaven.

The trial is pending in the United States District Court for the District of New Jersey in Camden, New Jersey.

Dozens of pilots, members of the class, have attended most days of the five weeks of trial to date. A particularly large crowd of pilots is anticipated for closing arguments Monday.