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Fyi...The lead attorney in the TWA vs ALPA case is noneother than Mike Haber. Mr. Haber also represents the MDA pilots against ALPA.

Allen Press and Joe Jacobson from Green Jacobson P.C. in St. Louis are the lead attorneys for the TWA pilots and have been since day one. Trujillo Rodriguez & Richards, LLC. assisted at trial.

Edit: Five recs to kubota's misinformation? Do you guys ever check facts?
 
And one more interesting note....the attorney for ALPA was none other than Daniel M. Katz, AAA merger counsel during Nicolau.
 
This afternoon a jury rendered a verdict in favor of the TWA pilots in their DFR lawsuit against ALPA. This is a tremendous victory for every pilot group who happens to find themselves in a merger with a larger pilot group. The TWA case represents the other side of the same DFR coin as our lawsuit against USAPA: in TWA, the DFR was the union failing to follow its merger policy. In Addington, the DFR occurred when the union followed the merger policy, but then ignored the result. The fact that we have a different name on the union door is trivial as far as the law is concerned.

The attorneys which litigated for the TWA pilots were Martin Green and Allen Press of Green Jacobson, P.C. These were the original attorneys retained by Leonidas, LLC, before hiring Polsinelli Shughart. The two Leonidas founders met with Mr. Green and Mr. Press at their Saint Louis office in September of 2007. A representational agreement was reached and one of the Leonidas founders wrote a check for $25,000 of his own money to be used as a retainer. Mr. Press, and another of the firm's excellent attorneys, Fernando Bermudez, provided Leonidas with critical legal analysis which allowed the West to stand firm against the growing threat posed by the East pilots both through ALPA and USAPA. It was just after this critical time that Mr. Press discovered a potential conflict of interest in his representation of the AWA pilots, as our DFR case potentially tracked back to ALPA. The firm was already representing the TWA pilots at that time, and their case was clearly against ALPA. When one attorney represents two different plaintiffs in unrelated matters against the same defendant, pernicious conflicts of interest could arise. Also, it was Lee Seham himself (who had been retained as an “expert witness” on behalf of the TWA pilots) who demanded that the Green firm abandon its relationship with Leonidas, or he would exit the litigation on behalf of the TWA pilots. We would like to thank Lee for his excellent and helpful analysis in the TWA case, which was validated this morning by a jury. Unfortunately for USAPA, that analysis diametrically opposes Lee's legal position on its behalf.

Hence, it was Mr. Press who referred us to Marty Harper. The Leonidas founders were always impressed by Martin, Allen and Fernando’s work, and there is no doubt that the TWA pilots have had outstanding litigators on their side. Once again, thank you to Martin, Allen, and Fernando for your work on behalf of the AWA pilots. Most especially, thank you to Allen Press for referring us to Marty Harper and Andy Jacob. Both the TWA pilots and the AWA pilots have had to walk very difficult paths. Neither group chose these ordeals, but they are our respective realities. Fortunately, it appears to be working out as well as possible for both wronged pilot groups. Tonight as we contemplate another stunning victory for an underdog, we suspect that we are not alone in expressing our heartfelt congratulations to the TWA pilots who funded own their litigation and never gave up. WELL DONE!

Note: According to several former TWA pilots we have spoken with, the bulk of the funds donated to their litigation effort came from pilots who were furloughed and underemployed. They did this knowing that their opponent had unlimited resources and could delay justice for many years.

Next in the TWA case will be the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, which will be their version of the Addington Doc. 593. We will then be able to make a better comparison between our case and the TWA case. In closing, we wish to reiterate our thanks to our Leonidas, LLC contributors. Your unwavering financial support has stopped USAPA dead in their tracks. Along with the TWA pilots who made their litigation possible, together we are proving that, “might does not make right.”


Sincerely,

Leonidas LLC
 
I'm not implying anything other than this transaction was considered a reverse acquisition as was stated in the 10-Q filing. US was the surviving company in name while AWA was the acquiring company in terms of financial reporting and accounting transactions. Other than the officers where HP made out quite a bit better than US, the rest of the employee groups merged as co-equals in terms of position & status. Independent of union-orchestrated SLI processes, a Res agent is a Res agent no matter which company they came from, a CSR is a CSR, a fleet service person is a fleet person, a captain is a captain and so on.

My point is that there is a willful ignorance of what the reorganization plan called for in order for US to emerge from bankruptcy and how merger/acquisition process was really structured. It really means nothing now that it has been completed and all but two work groups have been integrated.

The facts are that there was a merger structured as a reverse acquisition and that one of the many governing documents controlling the merger was a Transition Agreement signed by authorized representatives of both pilot groups. Even in the 10-Q it states that this document will remain in full force until there is a joint CBA covering all pilots of the new company. USAPA and many east pilots somehow think that the TA no longer applies to the SLI process and prefer to think that the west pilots should just be added to their list, which denies the structure of the corporate transaction and the agreement that was entered into by all of the parties involved. That's why this issue keeps coming up and spun by the east to deny the facts.
Well unfortunately everyone doesn't see it your utopian way. As far as your equality and the TA well just have to agree to disagree. The lawsuit is what this is all about and separate ops prevail until otherwise. The transition agreement doesn't cover the merger, in fact is has nothing to do with the merger. It has to do with transitioning from two CBA's to one. As far as equals we are equal....I have a pilot vote and you have a pilot vote. That's all we get. You're argument that we are a "new company" is spin. In fact, again it's irrelevant. The agreement as to who the parties are IS a fact airline parties and up ion parties.....pilots vote and until that happens....keep on trucking and keep on suinng. You're righteous legal group of AOL is the polar opposite of USAPA and well fight it out to the end now.

You're right it means nothing now. That has been my point all along....using the who bought who or who acquired who or what would of happened if is irrelevant at this juncture in time.

What is happening is the here and now. So what is happening in the here and now....AOL is suing for a vote. You won't get a joint CBA if and unless we get a JCBA to vote on. We won't get that until the DJ action is resolved. We won't get that until silver makes a decision. If we get a decision were going to appeals court.

You call it willful ignorance. Funny, I agree, it's just a matter of which side of the mississippi your on and which way you point yur finger. However, youre take on this merger of equals is too subjective. Again, all the other groups were treated as if their years of service with their respected companies were part of this so called "newly formed company ". Only the West pilots wanted more and they don't have it. We are now arguing about the legal aspect again. You believe the TA carries more value than I do and well just have to let this play out in the courts.

There are bigger issues looming in our collective future and the major part of this risk, IMO rests on the west side. The economy is fragile at best, probably slowing, debt crisis in Europe and here in US is looming and persistent unemployment is dragging the future down. In fact I do not believe the employment figures for the US are at 9.7 percent, I believe they are double that.

These are difficult times and focusing on who bought who and who deserves more may be a moot point in the next year or two. But we are now where we are.

Good luck.
 
I'm not implying anything other than this transaction was considered a reverse acquisition as was stated in the 10-Q filing. US was the surviving company in name while AWA was the acquiring company in terms of financial reporting and accounting transactions. Other than the officers where HP made out quite a bit better than US, the rest of the employee groups merged as co-equals in terms of position & status. Independent of union-orchestrated SLI processes, a Res agent is a Res agent no matter which company they came from, a CSR is a CSR, a fleet service person is a fleet person, a captain is a captain and so on.

My point is that there is a willful ignorance of what the reorganization plan called for in order for US to emerge from bankruptcy and how merger/acquisition process was really structured. It really means nothing now that it has been completed and all but two work groups have been integrated.

The facts are that there was a merger structured as a reverse acquisition and that one of the many governing documents controlling the merger was a Transition Agreement signed by authorized representatives of both pilot groups. Even in the 10-Q it states that this document will remain in full force until there is a joint CBA covering all pilots of the new company. USAPA and many east pilots somehow think that the TA no longer applies to the SLI process and prefer to think that the west pilots should just be added to their list, which denies the structure of the corporate transaction and the agreement that was entered into by all of the parties involved. That's why this issue keeps coming up and spun by the east to deny the facts.
Well unfortunately everyone doesn't see it your utopian way. As far as your equality and the TA well just have to agree to disagree. The lawsuit is what this is all about and separate ops prevail until otherwise. The transition agreement doesn't cover the merger, in fact is has nothing to do with the merger. It has to do with transitioning from two CBA's to one. As far as equals we are equal....I have a pilot vote and you have a pilot vote. That's all we get. You're argument that we are a "new company" is spin. In fact, again it's irrelevant. The agreement as to who the parties are IS a fact airline parties and up ion parties.....pilots vote and until that happens....keep on trucking and keep on suinng. You're righteous legal group of AOL is the polar opposite of USAPA and well fight it out to the end now.

You're right it means nothing now. That has been my point all along....using the who bought who or who acquired who or what would of happened if is irrelevant at this juncture in time.

What is happening is the here and now. So what is happening in the here and now....AOL is suing for a vote. You won't get a joint CBA if and unless we get a JCBA to vote on. We won't get that until the DJ action is resolved. We won't get that until silver makes a decision. If we get a decision were going to appeals court.

You call it willful ignorance. Funny, I agree, it's just a matter of which side of the mississippi your on and which way you point yur finger. However, youre take on this merger of equals is too subjective. Again, all the other groups were treated as if their years of service with their respected companies were part of this so called "newly formed company ". Only the West pilots wanted more and they don't have it. We are now arguing about the legal aspect again. You believe the TA carries more value than I do and well just have to let this play out in the courts.

There are bigger issues looming in our collective future and the major part of this risk, IMO rests on the west side. The economy is fragile at best, probably slowing, debt crisis in Europe and here in US is looming and persistent unemployment is dragging the future down. In fact I do not believe the employment figures for the US are at 9.7 percent, I believe they are double that.

These are difficult times and focusing on who bought who and who deserves more may be a moot point in the next year or two. But we are now where we are.

Good luck.
 
This afternoon a jury rendered a verdict in favor of the TWA pilots in their DFR lawsuit against ALPA. This is a tremendous victory for every pilot group who happens to find themselves in a merger with a larger pilot group. The TWA case represents the other side of the same DFR coin as our lawsuit against USAPA: in TWA, the DFR was the union failing to follow its merger policy. In Addington, the DFR occurred when the union followed the merger policy, but then ignored the result. The fact that we have a different name on the union door is trivial as far as the law is concerned.

The attorneys which litigated for the TWA pilots were Martin Green and Allen Press of Green Jacobson, P.C. These were the original attorneys retained by Leonidas, LLC, before hiring Polsinelli Shughart. The two Leonidas founders met with Mr. Green and Mr. Press at their Saint Louis office in September of 2007. A representational agreement was reached and one of the Leonidas founders wrote a check for $25,000 of his own money to be used as a retainer. Mr. Press, and another of the firm's excellent attorneys, Fernando Bermudez, provided Leonidas with critical legal analysis which allowed the West to stand firm against the growing threat posed by the East pilots both through ALPA and USAPA. It was just after this critical time that Mr. Press discovered a potential conflict of interest in his representation of the AWA pilots, as our DFR case potentially tracked back to ALPA. The firm was already representing the TWA pilots at that time, and their case was clearly against ALPA. When one attorney represents two different plaintiffs in unrelated matters against the same defendant, pernicious conflicts of interest could arise. Also, it was Lee Seham himself (who had been retained as an “expert witness” on behalf of the TWA pilots) who demanded that the Green firm abandon its relationship with Leonidas, or he would exit the litigation on behalf of the TWA pilots. We would like to thank Lee for his excellent and helpful analysis in the TWA case, which was validated this morning by a jury. Unfortunately for USAPA, that analysis diametrically opposes Lee's legal position on its behalf.

Hence, it was Mr. Press who referred us to Marty Harper. The Leonidas founders were always impressed by Martin, Allen and Fernando’s work, and there is no doubt that the TWA pilots have had outstanding litigators on their side. Once again, thank you to Martin, Allen, and Fernando for your work on behalf of the AWA pilots. Most especially, thank you to Allen Press for referring us to Marty Harper and Andy Jacob. Both the TWA pilots and the AWA pilots have had to walk very difficult paths. Neither group chose these ordeals, but they are our respective realities. Fortunately, it appears to be working out as well as possible for both wronged pilot groups. Tonight as we contemplate another stunning victory for an underdog, we suspect that we are not alone in expressing our heartfelt congratulations to the TWA pilots who funded own their litigation and never gave up. WELL DONE!

Note: According to several former TWA pilots we have spoken with, the bulk of the funds donated to their litigation effort came from pilots who were furloughed and underemployed. They did this knowing that their opponent had unlimited resources and could delay justice for many years.

Next in the TWA case will be the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, which will be their version of the Addington Doc. 593. We will then be able to make a better comparison between our case and the TWA case. In closing, we wish to reiterate our thanks to our Leonidas, LLC contributors. Your unwavering financial support has stopped USAPA dead in their tracks. Along with the TWA pilots who made their litigation possible, together we are proving that, “might does not make right.”


Sincerely,

Leonidas LLC
Unfortunately AOL has just cooked their own goose. A far as the TWA pilots ALPA may owe them but APA doesn't. USAPA will prevail on this point because the TWA pilots were entailed by APA and DOH wasn't much of a consideration. What we have that Bensel doesn't is an appeals court ruling that tells a different story....one where no vote has been taken.

It's going to be a long, hot five years....eventually attempting to bankrupt ALPA or USAPA is going to prove a futile as draining the amazon. If ALPA and/or USAPA were to shut down today those pilot groups fracture into their own companies and you get nothing. No ALPA, no USAPA and there's no one to sue. Individual pilots have no direct liability for debts incurred by the representing entity.

No entity no dues...and this may be the direction labor is going in this country. It will be interesting to see if they can collect. With United and Continental having merger troubles and Southwest/Airtran going their separate way from ALPA it will be very interesting times for labor in general. Let the lawsuits continue....that is all.
 
Unfortunately AOL has just cooked their own goose. A far as the TWA pilots ALPA may owe them but APA doesn't. USAPA will prevail on this point because the TWA pilots were entailed by APA and DOH wasn't much of a consideration.

It's going to be a long, hot five years....eventually attempting to bankrupt ALPAor USAPA is going to prove a futile as draining the amazon. If ALPA and/or USAPA were to shut down today those pilot groups fracture into their own companies and you get nothing. No ALPA, no USAPA and there's no one to sue. Individual pilots have no direct liability for debts incurred by the representing entity.

No entity no dues...and this may be the direction labor is going in this country. It will be interesting to see if they can collect. With United and Continental having merger troubles and Southwest/Airtran going their separate way from ALPA it will be very interesting times for labor in general. Let the lawsuits continue....that is all.
All I have to say is, keep dreaming. The company is never going to deal on seniority.

Enjoy LOA 93.
 
All I have to say is, keep dreaming. The company is never going to deal on seniority.

Enjoy LOA 93.
Ok. Let's say you're right. If the company won't or doesn't have to deal on seniority I say let's eliminate unionism. I think it would be good for all of us. What say you?
 
Ok. Let's say you're right. If the company won't or doesn't have to deal on seniority I say let's eliminate unionism. I think it would be good for all of us. What say you?
Being your version of unionism is virtually indistinguishable from scabbing, I'd say good effing riddance to usapa.
 
Ok. Let's say you're right. If the company won't or doesn't have to deal on seniority I say let's eliminate unionism. I think it would be good for all of us. What say you?
Jj, it's not about doh or nic., it's about advancing the majority at the expense of the minority. The fact u claim that the twa guys won because doh wasn't use speaks volumes as to your delusion
 
Jj, it's not about doh or nic., it's about advancing the majority at the expense of the minority. The fact u claim that the twa guys won because doh wasn't use speaks volumes as to your delusion
The bargaining agent didn't follow their merger policy. They basically hogtied TWA's merger counsel. DFR!

No different than ignoring the merger policy in our case. Change names all you want, the East still agreed to binding arbitration. We negotiated, mediated and arbitrated. The list is the list.

ALPA may not have $1.2 billion, but US Airways sure as he77 does. The company is never going to deal on seniority, especially with 2/3rds of their pilots on BK wages.
 
If the company won't or doesn't have to deal on seniority I say let's eliminate unionism.

Gee Skippy, you kinda already did that with the phony "union" you ginned up in the back of that van. If your brain trust would devote even 1/10th as much effort into building unity as it does trying to marginalize the west, you'd probably have already accomplished the goals of unionism - improved pay and working conditions for it's members.

The pilots of US cannot shuck the chains of USAPA off fast enough!!

And think, you helped make that all possible. I bet Mom's proud of you!
 
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