US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Barrister]

Hey moron. You have a reading comprehension problem? If it goes with any kind of slotting, I will be slinging gear for a CO captain on the 767 who was hired after me. Same thing. Big deal. Who cares? There is more to life than that fourth stripe at all cost. Do you REALLY define yourself by your airline position? I bet you are one of those guys who finds any reason to be seen in public in your uniform. WHAT A LOSER! Do you also sign your checks CAPTAIN Barrister? Your argument is nothing more than ego and arrogance. Nothing surprising there.

How about slinging gear for one hired 17 years after you.....or even 7 years after you !!!!!
It ain't the stripe moron it's the cash!!!
You keep dodging the issue..........weigh in on the HUGH difference in your merger and OURS
not just yours!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

NIC balanced the widebody flying and threw everone else under the bus!!!
I can live on LOA93 till the last day.....you will excrete bricks when the East starts hiring 30-40 per month
and upgrading........DUDE ....it's coming...get your head right!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

Where the heck did you guys learn to do math? Are the public schools on the east coast really that bad?

30-40 per month would be 360-480 pilots per year ther east is not retiring anywhere near that many. Parker has made the statement several times that US Airways is not going to grow. So even if you think that your attrition has value it is no where near that. So how is it you are going to hire 30-40 per month?
For the next 10 years these are the retirement numbers. But that does not tell the whole story. You guys say look at all of that valuable attrition. From the last bid, the east has 1233 captain and 1348 F/O biddable position with 3434 listed on the seniority list. Cleary 25% of the list is out on MED or whatever so 25% or 860 retirement carry NO value because they do not hold a flying position so when they leave no spot is opened up.

Retirement per month Retirement 75% per month
2012 9 1 7 1
2013 150 13 113 9
2014 214 18 161 13
2015 184 15 138 12
2016 230 19 173 14
2017 239 20 179 15
2018 259 22 194 16
2019 259 22 194 16
2020 244 20 183 15
2021 249 21 187 16



These are the numbers. What kind of math are you doing that makes you think the east is going to be hiring 30-40 per month other than overstating your position (liar) or having no clue what you are talking about. Someone is excreting something all right. But it is coming from the east.

 

[cleardirect]

How about slinging gear for one hired 17 years after you.....or even 7 years after you !!!!!
It ain't the stripe moron it's the cash!!!
You keep dodging the issue..........weigh in on the HUGH difference in your merger and OURS
not just yours!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

You guys really need to pick a reason and stick with it. One day it is about never upgrading. Another day it is about never flying the 330. Another day it is about the money but the next day it is not about the money. You start your post with that tired old 17 years whine but tell us it is about the money.

Come on just admit that it is about your ago and your failed career. That you really want the west to pay for your mistake of staying at US Airways. That you want it all back and you want the west to pay for it.

So today it is about the cash and not the stripe than why are you continually giving away at least $35,000.00 -$40,000 per year? Accept the Nicolau and take the cash. Problem solved.

 

[luvthe9]

How about slinging gear for one hired 17 years after you.....or even 7 years after you !!!!!
It ain't the stripe moron it's the cash!!!
You keep dodging the issue..........weigh in on the HUGH difference in your merger and OURS
not just yours!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

You know the Contiental guys want nothing to do with UAL they are kind of like our AWA.

 

[luvthe9]

So today it is about the cash and not the stripe than why are you continually giving away at least $35,000.00 -$40,000 per year? Accept the Nicolau and take the cash. Problem solved.

35 to 45 is nothing compared to what you are all losing on your property values in PHX and LAS and it ain't over yet, not to mention how crime ridden PHX is. Accept DOH, the NIC is something you guys will NEVER have and you can bank on that. AOL has led you down the wrong path we know most your pilots realize that now. Give it up.

 

[767jetz]

IT ALL GOES BACK TO THE NIC......HE GOT IT WRONG!!!!

I don't question that you have this opinion, and are entitled to it. I also don't doubt that you believe your opinion to be a fact. Unfortunately that is where you go off the path.

"Nic got it wrong" is an opinion. It is one held by some/many? on the east, very few outside the east. you guys point to the 9th, where in fact all they said was not ripe. But the west will point to Addington, McCaskill, ALPA merger policy, and recent precedent. So far nothing has been proven in court to change your opinion into a fact. Only time will tell.

So all the bickering back and forth here boils down to 2 opinions... Nic got it right, or Nic got it wrong. But no one's opinion will matter in the end. The only thing that will matter is who is on the correct side of the law. That remains to be seen. We all already know where our respective side's money lies, and why.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Where the heck did you guys learn to do math? Are the public schools on the east coast really that bad?

30-40 per month would be 360-480 pilots per year ther east is not retiring anywhere near that many. Parker has made the statement several times that US Airways is not going to grow. So even if you think that your attrition has value it is no where near that. So how is it you are going to hire 30-40 per month?
For the next 10 years these are the retirement numbers. But that does not tell the whole story. You guys say look at all of that valuable attrition. From the last bid, the east has 1233 captain and 1348 F/O biddable position with 3434 listed on the seniority list. Cleary 25% of the list is out on MED or whatever so 25% or 860 retirement carry NO value because they do not hold a flying position so when they leave no spot is opened up.

Retirement per month Retirement 75% per month
2012 9 1 7 1
2013 150 13 113 9
2014 214 18 161 13
2015 184 15 138 12
2016 230 19 173 14
2017 239 20 179 15
2018 259 22 194 16
2019 259 22 194 16
2020 244 20 183 15
2021 249 21 187 16



These are the numbers. What kind of math are you doing that makes you think the east is going to be hiring 30-40 per month other than overstating your position (liar) or having no clue what you are talking about. Someone is excreting something all right. But it is coming from the east.

Well if we aint growin, keep your attrition and be happy! MM! BTW did you just make-up those numbers, looks like it!

 

[cleardirect]

35 to 45 is nothing compared to what you are all losing on your property values in PHX and LAS and it ain't over yet, not to mention how crime ridden PHX is. Accept DOH, the NIC is something you guys will NEVER have and you can bank on that. AOL has led you down the wrong path we know most your pilots realize that now. Give it up.

Things must be really getting desperate over there to make a plea like this. I just read the latest filing for usapa in the NY case. You could smell the desperation coming off the page. The company must really be putting pressure on usapa an you east guys. The support starting to crumble?

Really, you guys know that most of the west pilots are ready to give up on AOL and Nicolau. You guys just keep thinking that. You have a small problem with that line of flawed thinking. The company is not. It is their law suit in judge Silvers court not the west.

Keep fighting it boys it is your side that is giving up way more than we are. $35,000-$40,000 at least. Usapa is going to get us nothing in this next contract so there is no loss for us. Without a JCBA we have min fleet and no reason to move so my property values mean nothing. It is really to bad that that is your entire argument now. That everything you guys have tried to justify your refusal to accept your obligation has been countered and you are left with talking about property values. You know I have read the Nicolau award and not one time did I see property values used as a factor in seniority integration.

DOH is something you guys will never have. You don't even have it now.

 

[cleardirect]

Well if we aint growin, keep your attrition and be happy! MM! BTW did you just make-up those numbers, looks like it!

Post your own number. just be able to prove it. I have asked you to do that but for some reason you refuse. Those are the correct numbers. Not as much as you thought right. Keep talking about your attrition and thinking it has more value than it does. Retire as an FO on LOA 93 I don't care your choice. Enjoy!

 

[end_of_alpa]

I don't question that you have this opinion, and are entitled to it. I also don't doubt that you believe your opinion to be a fact. Unfortunately that is where you go off the path.

"Nic got it wrong" is an opinion. It is one held by some/many? on the east, very few outside the east. you guys point to the 9th, where in fact all they said was not ripe. But the west will point to Addington, McCaskill, ALPA merger policy, and recent precedent. So far nothing has been proven in court to change your opinion into a fact. Only time will tell.

So all the bickering back and forth here boils down to 2 opinions... Nic got it right, or Nic got it wrong. But no one's opinion will matter in the end. The only thing that will matter is who is on the correct side of the law. That remains to be seen. We all already know where our respective side's money lies, and why.

Here is where YOUR wrong and the ONLY FACT:

I have an "opinion" as a member in good standing and every other pilot on the US Airways system seniority list that is a member in good standing has an opinion that becomes effectuated by voicing that opinion through their vote. P-E-R-I-O-D!

You can VOTE your opinion ONLY when the opportunity presents itself. Under OUR Constitution and Bylaws and when the CBA is completely negotiated and presented to the rank and file will those opinions manifest themselves into two voices: Yes or No.

There are NO amount of lawsuits that can overcome a VOTE! Even Wake said this. Even the Ninth said this. Even the Company said this. Even....GASP.....THE LAW....said this....THE SUPREME COURT, BTW, for those of you in Rio Linda. United pilots can't vote here, lawyers can't vote here, judges, juries, etc. can't vote here. ONLY US AIRWAYS PILOTS IN GOOD STANDING CAN VOTE. THAT IS THE LAW!

This is the "final and binding" that is spoken of and ONLY up and until the next collective bargaining agreement.

Riddle: When is an "arbitration NOT an arbitration? When its a VOTE! It's the VOTE, stupid! If it WEREN'T, ALPA would still be here, Nicolau would be imposed, United pilots would be flying US Airways equipment, US Airways pilots would have to GROVEL to ALPA for JOBS, etc.

Every East pilot understands this and we stand our ground based on the ONLY principle USAPA came into existence for....to preserve for the rank and file a vote. I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT, ALMOST OVERWHELMINGLY, THE EAST PILOTS (except CM, the "caped maurader", or "he who shall not be named" and a select greedy few others) UNDERSTAND THIS AND WILL NOT SELL THEIR VOTE AND THAT UNITES US!

It is what it is, YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU'RE opinion means....JACK SH!T!

Now, go back and play with your toys and MYOB!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Things must be really getting desperate over there to make a plea like this. I just read the latest filing for usapa in the NY case. You could smell the desperation coming off the page. The company must really be putting pressure on usapa an you east guys. The support starting to crumble?

Really, you guys know that most of the west pilots are ready to give up on AOL and Nicolau. You guys just keep thinking that. You have a small problem with that line of flawed thinking. The company is not. It is their law suit in judge Silvers court not the west.

Keep fighting it boys it is your side that is giving up way more than we are. $35,000-$40,000 at least. Usapa is going to get us nothing in this next contract so there is no loss for us. Without a JCBA we have min fleet and no reason to move so my property values mean nothing. It is really to bad that that is your entire argument now. That everything you guys have tried to justify your refusal to accept your obligation has been countered and you are left with talking about property values. You know I have read the Nicolau award and not one time did I see property values used as a factor in seniority integration.

DOH is something you guys will never have. You don't even have it now.

Funny, but I see YOUR making headway!

We're locked into our destiny and it is what it is. Separate ops for quite some time.

The company will not prevail the DJ in appeals court. Well just have to let it play out.

Companys DJ count 1:

Ninth overrules

Companys DJ count 3:

Hybrid 301/DFR requires both Company AND USAPA both complicit in harm. Dismissing the company eliminates the dual harm element and hense no DFR for USAPA.

Companys DJ count 2:

The answer the Ninth gave.

See you in SFO.

Good luck....

 

[traderjake]

35 to 45 is nothing compared to what you are all losing on your property values in PHX and LAS and it ain't over yet, not to mention how crime ridden PHX is.

You're really getting desperate.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Where the heck did you guys learn to do math? Are the public schools on the east coast really that bad?

30-40 per month would be 360-480 pilots per year ther east is not retiring anywhere near that many. Parker has made the statement several times that US Airways is not going to grow. So even if you think that your attrition has value it is no where near that. So how is it you are going to hire 30-40 per month?
For the next 10 years these are the retirement numbers. But that does not tell the whole story. You guys say look at all of that valuable attrition. From the last bid, the east has 1233 captain and 1348 F/O biddable position with 3434 listed on the seniority list. Cleary 25% of the list is out on MED or whatever so 25% or 860 retirement carry NO value because they do not hold a flying position so when they leave no spot is opened up.

Retirement per month Retirement 75% per month
2012 9 1 7 1
2013 150 13 113 9
2014 214 18 161 13
2015 184 15 138 12
2016 230 19 173 14
2017 239 20 179 15
2018 259 22 194 16
2019 259 22 194 16
2020 244 20 183 15
2021 249 21 187 16



These are the numbers. What kind of math are you doing that makes you think the east is going to be hiring 30-40 per month other than overstating your position (liar) or having no clue what you are talking about. Someone is excreting something all right. But it is coming from the east.

The number of pilots on LTD is not static. In fact with the age change to 65, it is likely the percentage will remain 25% or higher. As pilots retire from medical, every month active pilots will go out on medical and it is usually the older and therefore those near the top of a list. It will likely be a net wash, so the impact of retirements will mirror the hard numbers.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Here is where YOUR wrong and the ONLY FACT:

I have an "opinion" as a member in good standing and every other pilot on the US Airways system seniority list that is a member in good standing has an opinion that becomes effectuated by voicing that opinion through their vote. P-E-R-I-O-D!

You can VOTE your opinion ONLY when the opportunity presents itself. Under OUR Constitution and Bylaws and when the CBA is completely negotiated and presented to the rank and file will those opinions manifest themselves into two voices: Yes or No.

There are NO amount of lawsuits that can overcome a VOTE! Even Wake said this. Even the Ninth said this. Even the Company said this. Even....GASP.....THE LAW....said this....THE SUPREME COURT, BTW, for those of you in Rio Linda. United pilots can't vote here, lawyers can't vote here, judges, juries, etc. can't vote here. ONLY US AIRWAYS PILOTS IN GOOD STANDING CAN VOTE. THAT IS THE LAW!

This is the "final and binding" that is spoken of and ONLY up and until the next collective bargaining agreement.

Riddle: When is an "arbitration NOT an arbitration? When its a VOTE! It's the VOTE, stupid! If it WEREN'T, ALPA would still be here, Nicolau would be imposed, United pilots would be flying US Airways equipment, US Airways pilots would have to GROVEL to ALPA for JOBS, etc.

Every East pilot understands this and we stand our ground based on the ONLY principle USAPA came into existence for....to preserve for the rank and file a vote. I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT, ALMOST OVERWHELMINGLY, THE EAST PILOTS (except CM, the "caped maurader", or "he who shall not be named" and a select greedy few others) UNDERSTAND THIS AND WILL NOT SELL THEIR VOTE AND THAT UNITES US!

It is what it is, YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU'RE opinion means....JACK SH!T!

Now, go back and play with your toys and MYOB!

So why is USAPA so afraid to let the process move to a TA and a vote? Every action they take seems to be predicated on delaying a court ruing on what list is required for section 22. This section, as everyone knows. is the single reason why there is no progress on the JCBA negotiations. If it all comes down to a vote and the east pilots are supremely confident that the TA will be voted down with a NIC, then just stop delaying. Stop filing MTD's, stop taking every action that is preventing a full, final and legal decision and get on with it.

The problem will not resolve itself because USAPA will not be reasoned with and their only hope is to delay as soon as possible. Their greatest fear is a vote on a NIC-inclusive TA that would show them to be the unmitigated failure that they are. You want it to all be about a vote so where is it? Four years and how many votes have there been? What a joke.

 

[USA320Pilot]

USAPA's Conflicting Messages

Conflicting messages. USAPA communications updates too frequently conflict with the statements of others, including the court. The pilots aren't getting the full truth from their union on matters they need to understand.

See Story