US Pilots Labor Discussion

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Once again Cleary has stepped on his USAPA. BTW, the last time you guys used my union dues for a full page USA TODAY ad! The call sign became CACTUS. I wonder what Doug is going to do this time?

Probably give the east another brand new 330 with "Mike Cleary" painted on the nose.

 

[Code Name V]

Yeah. OK. You keep believing that rookie.

Try doing your homework and show us the strike vote of every successful strike and you'll see a 95+% strike vote. You'll be hard pressed to even find a strike vote less than that because REAL union leaders know that anything less than that is an admission that unity does not exist, and a vote would not even be taken if they aren't assured a number in the high 90's. Without unity any strike will fail. The company knows it. This is union class 101. You obviously have NO experience.

Funny thing is, I just attended a meeting 2 weeks ago and had this EXACT discussion with union leaders who organized the '85 strike. (not about us but about UA/CO preparing for release from the NMB and a possible strike in our future.) We're talking Strike Preparedness guys and Family Awareness leaders. But, you keep believing your fantasy. Wear your lanyard. You may be demonstrating "unity" among the east against the west. But you are doing nothing to influence the company. You guys are not as powerful and important as you believe, by yourselves. You will get no where without the west and 95+% unity with regard to a strike. Keep going with your feel good campaign. But mark my words...

It's not about the west flying your routes, btw. It a matter of fact that the company will wait you out as your lack of unity breaks the union and the number goes from 60 to 50 to 30 to 10 to game over. Then watch how fast you get replaced and US restarts as a REAL LCC with no union and individual contracts for pilots, aka Jet Blue's initial days. Ever read Walking The Line? Ever hear of a Fleet Qual? LOA 93 will look like a good contract! You really need to do some homework and educate yourself.

'Rookie' with 'no experience'? You're a pretty funny guy shill man. What was your hire date and what strike did you participate in? Yes, you do need a very high percentage vote but again, you miss the point as you spew your rhetoric where it is not appreciated, or wanted. Go away shill man and work your majic with your alpa sponsored strike prep and family awareness. Of course of it is not alpa endorsed, it has no value. Hey, hows that card drive with delta doing shill man? and why would delta even be interested in dumping alpa? go home and work on your internal problems and we will worry about where our efforts take us.

V

 

[Phoenix]

So let's step back a little from the trees to peek at the forrest.

One group of employees is foaming at the mouth and opposing their fellow pilots at every opportunity by siding with the company, even presuming that they can evaluate safety of flight via a message board... and they scream about integrity and professionalism all the while. Oh, the delicious irony.

 

[A320 Driver]

If it is in the MEL, you take it.

I've tried to stay out of this the last few weeks, but a statement like this can't go unchallenged. One of the men I respect most in aviation spoke of MELs this way: "Just because it's legal doesn't make it smart". A good Captain looks at all the options, contingencies and possibilities before they accept an aircraft with broken or missing components. The North Atlantic can be a hostile environment should things go wrong. The 330 Captain that Cleary was referring to made a good call and was treated like some kind of outcast. A few days later all the talking heads were running for cover because the details proved that she made a good decision.

A statement like yours is dangerous and foolish and I hope your blindly accepting whatever the company throws at you to fly doesn't bite you in the arse one day...because it bites every arse that is riding on your airplane.

Think about it...

Driver <_<

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

I think the west pilots know that the agent is just relaying that maintenance has released the aircraft. You see, we understand what people mean when they speak, instead of just hearing what we want to hear. That's called experience. Get some.

Really? You know the incident of what I speak? The PHX agent who assaulted one of the east pilots because he invoked captain's authority to delay boarding?

Or, is this some other incident?

Or, are you just making stuff up, again? I guess imagination and delusion suffice for reality when you are based in PHX.

 

[luvthe9]

Jetz is going to have a meltdown, labor issues at UAL/CAL, go figure. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/7664161.html

 

[crazystnic]

[View Postluvn737s, on 22 July 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:
If it is in the MEL, you take it.

.....

you really are a moron...

like the 737 they MEL's that had a lower aft body overheat..

and there MEL fix was to MEL the APU...

Like the leak might not of been coming from somewhere else?

Maybe an engine Pylon?

so the fix was get it out on time..

MEL the APU..

what a joke you are.

 

[luvthe9]

Really? You know the incident of what I speak? The PHX agent who assaulted one of the east pilots because he invoked captain's authority to delay boarding?

Or, is this some other incident?

Or, are you just making stuff up, again? I guess imagination and delusion suffice for reality when you are based in PHX.

You have to remember the west pilot group is a very weak , when the agents say jump, they say how high!! east pilots won't stand for that. 😀

 

[luvthe9]

[View Postluvn737s, on 22 July 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:
If it is in the MEL, you take it.

.....

you really are a moron...

like the 737 they MEL's that had a lower aft body overheat..

and there MEL fix was to MEL the APU...

Like the leak might not of been coming from somewhere else?

Maybe an engine Pylon?

so the fix was get it out on time..

MEL the APU..

what a joke you are.

Just because it's in the MEL book does not make it safe. You westies should be smart enough to know that.

 

[FlyUs]

Is it true that America West never had a fatality caused by an air accident?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

I've tried to stay out of this the last few weeks, but a statement like this can't go unchallenged. One of the men I respect most in aviation spoke of MELs this way: "Just because it's legal doesn't make it smart". A good Captain looks at all the options, contingencies and possibilities before they accept an aircraft with broken or missing components. The North Atlantic can be a hostile environment should things go wrong. The 330 Captain that Cleary was referring to made a good call and was treated like some kind of outcast. A few days later all the talking heads were running for cover because the details proved that she made a good decision.

A statement like yours is dangerous and foolish and I hope your blindly accepting whatever the company throws at you to fly doesn't bite you in the arse one day...because it bites every bodies arse that are riding on your airplane.

Think about it...

Driver <_<

Damn. Hell just froze over.

Thank you sir for chiming in on the sane side.

The people (and I am really liberal in calling them people) who denigrated her career should not just be fired, but humiliated in every way. Some of us know management has been harassing her and after evaluating her I must state for the record that I would defend her. Completely. Even if it meant the end of US/AWE. I take her competence well over that exhibited by any PHX kiddies.

 

[luvn737s]

Just because someis in the MEL book does not make it safe. You westies should be smart enough to know that.

Prove it!

Prove that you know more than the manufacturer who developed the Master MEL.

Prove that you know more than the panel of Flight Operations personnel (some of whom may be your own members) who developed the specifics that apply to USAirways operation.

Prove that you know more than the multiple layers of FAA management who sign off on allowing the MEL to be used

Prove that you know more than the veteran tech who sees more mechanical problems in a month than you'll see in an entire career, and who is confident enough in his analysis that he is willing to put his name on the line.

Prove that you know more than the dispatcher who shares legal responsibility with the pilot and who has seen the same situation played out for many years and who's job is made more difficult by immature children playing airline pilot.

And finally - prove that what you think the problem is, actually is what the problem is and prove that there is a bonified safety risk that everyone involved is simply too blind to see.

This is the speech I hope every east jerk gets to hear as their ID is being confiscated and they are escorted off the property.

This is hardball. When will you get that through your collective heads!

 

[luvn737s]

There are occasionally gray areas where the MEL can be changed or improved, but these are very rare and are not tied to the color lanyard or your emotions towards an arbitration.

1. Does it conform to it's Type Design (as modified by MEL)?

2. Is it in a safe condition for flight?

Those are the two legal requirements for aircraft airworthiness.

Unless you can bear the burden of proof that the MEL is wrong (and from the east guys I've spoken to, their knowledge of the airplane is "sparse" to be polite) I stand by the previous statement - if it's in the MEL, you take it.

 

[luvn737s]

I must state for the record that I would defend her. Completely. Even if it meant the end of US/AWE.

It won't. It might mean the end of your personal career, and if that's your choice, so be it. Tempe is interviewing your replacement today.

Go back to doing whatever "clubbing your seal" is a euphamism for.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Prove that you know more than the manufacturer who developed the Master MEL.

Um, the "manufacturer" is the maker of the MEL? Pretty ignorant, there. No conflict of interest at all.

Prove that you know more than the panel of Flight Operations personnel (some of whom may be your own members) who developed the specifics that apply to USAirways operation.

and, they are infallible? Who only focus on the specific and do not spend much time with interrelatedness. I have been there. Have you? I doubt it.

Prove that you know more than the multiple layers of FAA management who sign off on allowing the MEL to be used

Um, only one layer and he is pretty much on his way out. At least with the mini-bus.

Prove that you know more than the veteran tech who sees more mechanical problems in a month than you'll see in an entire career, and who is confident enough in his analysis that he is willing to put his name on the line.

This would be the guy who could not get hired anywhere else? Because of his "experience"? What happened to "you" putting your life on the line? and, what are you saying "more mechanical problems in a month"? PHX maintenance is that bad? OMIGOD. No wonder I stay international, just to stay away from the cretins in Arizona.

Prove that you know more than the dispatcher who shares legal responsibility with the pilot and who has seen the same situation played out for many years and who's job is made more difficult by immature children playing airline pilot.

Like the west dispatcher who, when I suggested we file on a more westerly route from SXM because we had to deviate west due to a line of TRM coming down and he said his satellite pictures showed no storms and to save fuel burn he wanted us on the same route back. We re-filed by ourselves. Yeah. Those guys. You guys are morons to believe them.

And finally - prove that what you think the problem is, actually is what the problem is and prove that there is a bonified safety risk that everyone involved is simply too blind to see.

The west culture is unsafe. period. No further discussion needed. "bonified" equals bona fide? Maybe?

This is hardball. When will you get that through your collective heads!

We can only dream you would take your own advice. We are not in a war zone so cool your jets. Make it safe or get out of my way. I loved seeing twenty a/c burning one waiting, with slot times, to takeoff 25R and we asked for 26, got it taxiing with two. I'd say we burned much less than any single engine taxiing westie. Thinking outside the box would be an improvement out west.