US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

He is pretty pissed. After all, he helped us get ALPA tanked here. You should be thanking him!

Oh, he helped toss out ALPA?! My bad. He is my new best friend and the next round is on me!

 

[Pi brat]

He is pretty pissed. After all, he helped us get ALPA tanked here. You should be thanking him!

He is so angry!!! He just, just...........needs to write someone up!

 

[767one]

Your range of thinking is really narrow, isn't it? Did Bob ever say that was on a 767?

Have you ever flown a Fokker? If not, we could have a long conversation on legal AC MELs that you would have to be a complete idiot to accept, again under certain conditions.

Hopefully you will get a little more education before you check out.

I guess I should have elaborated but we DO fly the 75 into DCA. Having said that I'm an old guy so it could have been a Convair, or 727, or BAC-111, or 737 but it was as a matter of fact a "silver Bullet" the good ole DC9.

Regards,


Bob

 

[Res Judicata]

making the assumption that everything we say or do has to do with a contract.

It's got nothing to do with a contract. It's 100% DOH. Every single move USAPA ever makes is for that solitary purpose. The safety survey is no different. Isom clearly gets it too. He even said what we on the West have always been saying. Enjoy LOA93 for the next several years.

 

[cactusboy53]

Oh, yeahI forgot, the parasitic AWA needed a "host" in order not to fold up. Who's money did you use to attach yourself to the "host"?

Since you called me a "Troll", what condescending name would you like me to call you? I can think of many.

How's your petition drive coming along?

I usually reserve use of the term "troll" for someone that makes statements that are untrue or that simply don't make sense for the purposes of drawing fire. The question that you put out asked.."Was AWA since inception always on the "upgrading, hiring, growing, making money" trend? "

ALL BUSINESSES go through ups & downs. Hiring and laying off. Growing and shrinking. Of course AWA has not upgraded, hired continuously, grown or made money since its inception. I said that when AWA acquired AAA in May 2005 we were getting new airplanes, upgrading (about 6.5 years on property average at the time), hiring (even some pretty neat US Air pilots that had quit the cesspool or been furloughed), and MAKING a PROFIT.

Frankly I don't care what you call me. All I know is that we have done NOTHING but what was required by law. We followed all the rules to this little game you folks have drawn us into. We are even paying for YOUR group to cheat OUR group. What say you to having 2/3 of our dues money put into a trust and YOUR group foot the total cost of the DOH land grab? That sounds pretty fair to me. USAPA & its supporters will eventually be caught up by their own actions & schemes.

"In arrogance the wicked relentlessly pursue the afflicted; let them be caught in the schemes they have devised." Psalm 10:2

 

[Pi brat]

It's got nothing to do with a contract. It's 100% DOH. Every single move USAPA ever makes is for that solitary purpose. The safety survey is no different. Isom clearly gets it too. He even said what we on the West have always been saying. Enjoy LOA93 for the next several years.

Ah. I see you share luvn's limited range. First question-do you think anyone in the top 517 may be "onboard"?

 

[Pi brat]

"In arrogance the wicked relentlessly pursue the afflicted; let them be caught in the schemes they have devised." Psalm 10:2

Here's one for ya, not that it would apply to anyone on this board, or our management team:

"Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice." Proverbs 13:10

 

[Res Judicata]

Ah. I see you share luvn's limited range. First question-do you think anyone in the top 517 may be "onboard"?

Yeah, they're on board the "USS Pointless"...the USAPA flag ship.

 

[Pi brat]

Yeah, they're on board the "USS Pointless"...the USAPA flag ship.

Yeah, pretty much what I expected.

 

[cactusboy53]

Hmm, since you mentioned it. A few months ago a asked a question about PID and I don't remember anyone answering it. You say May 2005 is when the PID was set, and I figured it was sometime around then. And Nicolau used that time to lock us into our furloughed or non-furloughed status. But he used the 2007 aircraft and positions for slotting us, when the east had taken a much greater hit. Why do you think he did that?

May 19, 2005 was when Doug Parker announced that America West Holdings was going to acquire US Air (AAA). The new airline would be called US Airways (LCC) with a new stock symbol. He announced that this would be accomplished with both in house funds and outside investors.

The PID (Policy Initiation Date) was determined by in the process by ALPA (as I recall) They looked at both carriers at that date (who's working / furloughed, aircraft number on that same date, etc.). I am looking for the specific documentation. I do not believe that Mr. Nicolau had anything to do with that set date. He did ask both pilot groups to deliver seniority lists to him of all pilots. The Nicolau award was signed May 1, 2007. The final date of the "trial" was February 21, 2007. BTW....by the time the arbitration was complete ALL furloughed US Air pilots had been called back to work at the NEW US AIRWAYS (some of them even on the west contract & pay).

Pi; You can scream unfair from the mountain tops, and perhaps I could do the same. The facts are that all three parties agreed to the process that we all legally completed. The two pilot groups made their case in court. The "judge" and the two neutrals made the determination. The USAPA experiment has bought nothing but DELAY for the sake of DELAY only. All the grandstanding, hypothesizing, theorizing, extrapolating, and dilly-dallying has cost our group MILLIONS of DOLLARS. The winners are LCC, Parker, the BOD & the lawyers.

Based on that information alone, there is no way that Nicolau used anything other than the information that was either given to him by the two parties or what was testified to during the arbitration. I guess you could blame Prater (again) for not looking into the future and seeing that the furloughed pilots would return to work by 2007.... :blink:

I'll bookmark this response (and continue to research where, when & who exactly does the PID....it has been six years ago, after all), so that I can reference it when the question arises in the year 2025.... 🙄 Heavy on the sarcasm? Sure. Tired of the endless hyperbole, posturing and nonsense based on a larger body's claim to date of hire because it's the "gold standard"? Absolutely.

BTW......How many lawyers does it take to argue two sides of a case? ONE. It's the same guy, he just has two different clients.

 

[cactusboy53]

"Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice." Proverbs 13:10

How about taking the advise of the law firms before you found Seham? Pride? While I am prideful, I'm working on it. That said, I can hear Cleary & USAPA's chest-thumping here in Missouri.

 

[No Land Green]

I guess you could blame Prater (again) for not looking into the future and seeing that the furloughed pilots would return to work by 2007....

Yeah, it cost him (ALPA National) $11 million in annual dues revenue from LCC.........Now that is funny!!!!!!!!

I guess that's why LOS is now incorporated in ALPA Merger Policy.......That's funny too!!!!!!

 

[Pi brat]

Pi; You can scream unfair from the mountain tops, and perhaps I could do the same. The facts are that all three parties agreed to the process that we all legally completed. The two pilot groups made their case in court. The "judge" and the two neutrals made the determination.

Guess what? Are you sitting down? I agree! 🙄 I know it's hard to keep track of who said what on here, but months(years?) ago I said that if I were a west pilot my line would go something like this: " I know you don't think the Nic award is fair. From where I sit I can see some things about it that make me wonder. Thing is, we had a policy for handling this. We both failed to come to an agreement and we turned over to Mr Nicolau. He came up with his list, warts and all, but for us to change it now would be for us to take away something, from someone, and to after the fact come up with new winners and losers, and we can't do that." No one can really argue with that, can they? (pilots being pilots, they will) But when people bring up things to justify why it was fair, I tend to want to counter their arguments! 😀

Fair or not, the east decided it would not live with the Nic, if there was anyway around it. There were different ideas about how to go about that, but the USAPA method won the day. That's the reality we ALL live with and no arguing about whether THAT is fair will change it either.

 

[Pi brat]

How about taking the advise of the law firms before you found Seham? Pride? While I am prideful, I'm working on it. That said, I can hear Cleary & USAPA's chest-thumping here in Missouri.

I think all parties of this mess are guilty of that.

 

[cactusboy53]

I think all parties of this mess are guilty of that.

No so true Weedhopper. While I was not involved in Leonidas in the very beginning, I believe I can say that the law firms interviewed by the group agreed that a DFR would likely be provable if the east tried to dodge the final and binding seniority award.

I believe that we were also told that bar might be high to adjudicate such a claim. Who knew that it only took a jury 90 minutes to see the truth? While the case was dismissed for RIPENESS only, a jury gets it. A senior arbitrator gets it. Two pilot neutrals got it. Two federal judges (soon to be three?) got it.

Our legal firm steadfastly told us the truth. They cautioned that we may not win, and they have always gone in prepared.

Now if it's the "chest-thumping" that you speak of.....well, guilty (sometimes). Mikey moves make you guys an easy target. He also is the best fund raiser that Leonidas has.

Hey did you talk over my request with Mikey? Will you willingly take 2/3 of our dues and place them in escrow (until the courts settle this little issue), and take up an assessment of the east pilots to fund the DOH paper chase? It sounds like a fair idea. What say you?