US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

I'm wrong, it's on call 20 day a month for $125 per hour .

That make make all the difference in the world doesn't it.

Shows how long it's been since I've been a Reserve.

Oh, I get it. In PHX, blockholder months have more days in them.

 

[BLT]

Dude I will say it again for ya......got nothing against any West pilot......I lay this all at NICs feet
the arrogance of putting a 17 year guy....well you know......regardless of each sides argument.....had
NIC not been lazy in his final product this thing was salvageable......but when you (NIC) disregard
the massive givebacks to save U ,,,AND THEN PENALYZE that same group because of those givebacks....
well you get what you get. Most of us will be gone in 5-10 years.....wish things could have been different.....
but the fact is MOST east guys WILL NOT trade their seniority for a minimal pay raise......let me ask you
......to get labor peace....what is your guess as to what Parkers TOP offer will be for a AB/737 Capt
and will that be enough to accept NIC........it may be in Parkers hands and then we will see!!!

NICDOA

What will $125/hr get you in the next merger?

I don't remember givebacks as part of the guidelines for seniority integration.

5-10 more years at $125/hr. Top rate A320 at Spirit is $164/hr. 80 hours a month x $40/hr for 15 years = $3200/month, $38400/year, $576,000 for 15 years (10 years plus the 5 already squandered).

$576,000 times 3500 east pilots = $2,000,000,000. No wonder Parker wants to keep you guys in line over there. That is 2 BILLION in savings (givebacks) over 15 years! A donation to the company of over half a million dollars each!

If givebacks are considered in the next seniority integration, you will all be at the top of the list for sure! Maybe that has been Cleary's strategy all along. Brilliant!

 

[mrbreeze]

Got it. November 1986. There were 28 pilot hired in that class. Let’s call you RD. Number 2408 on a stand alone list. Using the DOH hire list you would be number 2519 losing a career ending 111 spots. With the Nicolau you go from number 2408 to spot 3527. Losing 1119 not your reported 1800 positions. That means you would have all of the AWA captains and only 100 west FO’s senior to you. You were an F/O at the time of the merger were you not?

Looking at the west pilot just senior to RD on the Nicolau list. D. Ransick was 1320 on the AWA list (about 300 from upgrade) placed 3525 meaning he lost 2205 on the Nicolau list. But under DOH he went from 1320 to 6036 losing 4716 positions, 1103 which were furloughed at the time. Placing all of the east captains, all of the east active F/O’s and 1103 furloughed pilots senior to him. This is a guy that had 533 west pilot junior to him stand alone now becomes furlough fodder for east furloughed pilots.

So you have the numbers. Who gets hurt more an east pilot losing 1119 spots using the Nicolau or a west pilot losing 4716 spots using DOH?

Quite clearly a west pilot using DOH.

Thanks for clearing that up...yes, you are correct. My loss is just under 1300 numbers...I did not intend to inflate that number, just didn't remember it correctly.

There is such a large gap between the proposals and that is the problem. I think that having DOH as the constitution of USAPA is wrong...no flexibility at all. I also believe that the NIC is wrong....so something in the middle is what we need.

I would like to see Parker come out with his own proposal on compensation and a seniority list. If it were a descent proposal, I think it would sell and we could move on down this rocky road.

breeze

(gotta get a run in and head back to Europe, I so I will be off here for awhile)

 

[cleardirect]

Since it was brought up. Mrbreese did not lose 1800 positions but some east pilots did. Those furloughed. If anyone watched the state of the airline video there was an original member of the AFO club there to tell Parker how bad it was. This poor guy had trouble putting together a single coherent thought. Greg Harrington! Compare his seniority Nicolau v DOH.

Little Greggy was furloughed at the time of the merger. 1000 numbers deep making his seniority 131.9%. Stand alone how long would it have been before Mr. “its bad Mr. Parker” would have been called back? 5 years? Stand alone he would have to have been called back first but he was 2100 numbers from the junior captain. On the Nicolau list Greggy is 5765 with 1000 east furloughed pilots and 1800 west pilots senior to him.

On a DOH list this original AFO had 6.0 DOH but only 2.6 years on the property. He wants credit for the time he bagged groceries or sold used cars. Mr. integrity wants to jump over 660 west pilot to better himself even though he was furloughed at the time going from 2100 away from the junior captain to being within 100 number of the junior west captain.

Someone please try and justify giving someone 3.4 years of credit when they were off the property. How does going from 1000 furloughs to within 100 numbers of upgrade maintain his pre-merger career expectations? How is that not a huge windfall for that east pilot at the expense of west pilots?

Explain!

 

[cleardirect]

Thanks for clearing that up...yes, you are correct. My loss is just under 1300 numbers...I did not intend to inflate that number, just didn't remember it correctly.

There is such a large gap between the proposals and that is the problem. I think that having DOH as the constitution of USAPA is wrong...no flexibility at all. I also believe that the NIC is wrong....so something in the middle is what we need.

I would like to see Parker come out with his own proposal on compensation and a seniority list. If it were a descent proposal, I think it would sell and we could move on down this rocky road.

breeze

(gotta get a run in and head back to Europe, I so I will be off here for awhile)

You may want to reconsider your idea. Do you really want the company getting into the seniority list design business?

What happens if the company gets the injunction on Friday? There will most likely be some acting out by the malcontents. Instead of charging money the company says OK we will extract our payment by placing east pilots farther and farther down the list for every act of defiance that happens. East pilots will stop when the pain gets to great. What would that point be? Staple? What happens if the company comes up with what you consider worse than Nicolau?

Would the company come up C&R that would be beneficial to them or us?

 

[NoYellowNeck]

Thanks for clearing that up...yes, you are correct. My loss is just under 1300 numbers...I did not intend to inflate that number, just didn't remember it correctly.

There is such a large gap between the proposals and that is the problem. I think that having DOH as the constitution of USAPA is wrong...no flexibility at all. I also believe that the NIC is wrong....so something in the middle is what we need.

I would like to see Parker come out with his own proposal on compensation and a seniority list. If it were a descent proposal, I think it would sell and we could move on down this rocky road.

breeze

(gotta get a run in and head back to Europe, I so I will be off here for awhile)

Typical is BS and ignorance.

First, you inflate your situation for the sake of argument to look worse than it is. Funny how you jokes out east never underestimate.

Second, Parker is in no position to come out with his own SLI. If you could have, he would have. The fact that he's going for a DJ on that shows he's looking for cover behind the courts so that when he finally does publicly state that not only has he accepted the list, but that S22 is not negotiable, USAPA will be powerless to do anything. And injunction will already be in place and the NMB will not release USAPA based solely on the company not moving on S22.

Backed into a corner with no where to go.

So, easties, there is NO COMPROMISE on the list. Its there, on Parker's desk, ready to be used in the next contract or merger. Its NEVER going away. It CAN'T be touched.

You have your two options: Nic or LOA 93. Remember, just TWO.

 

[mrbreeze]

Typical is BS and ignorance.

First, you inflate your situation for the sake of argument to look worse than it is. Funny how you jokes out east never underestimate.

Second, Parker is in no position to come out with his own SLI. If you could have, he would have. The fact that he's going for a DJ on that shows he's looking for cover behind the courts so that when he finally does publicly state that not only has he accepted the list, but that S22 is not negotiable, USAPA will be powerless to do anything. And injunction will already be in place and the NMB will not release USAPA based solely on the company not moving on S22.

Backed into a corner with no where to go.

So, easties, there is NO COMPROMISE on the list. Its there, on Parker's desk, ready to be used in the next contract or merger. Its NEVER going away. It CAN'T be touched.

You have your two options: Nic or LOA 93. Remember, just TWO.

HEY!

I just admitted that I made a mistake and was wrong, while Clear was right...and even thanked him for clearing it up......trying to have a civil conversation.

SO SHUT THE F**K UP!!!

You may not wear a yellow lanyard, but you certainly have a yellow spine!

breeze

 

[NoYellowNeck]

HEY!

I just admitted that I made a mistake and was wrong, while Clear was right...and even thanked him for clearing it up......trying to have a civil conversation.

SO SHUT THE F**K UP!!!

You may not wear a yellow lanyard, but you certainly have a yellow spine!

breeze

And you continue to make the same mistake you ignorant beeyatch.

There is NO COMPROMISE ON THE NIC.

You may wear a yellow lanyard which certainly means you have no brain.

SHUT THE F**K UP back at you.

Suckah.

 

[mrbreeze]

And you continue to make the same mistake you ignorant beeyatch.

There is NO COMPROMISE ON THE NIC.

You may wear a yellow lanyard which certainly means you have no brain.

SHUT THE F**K UP back at you.

Suckah.

You make Cleary seem like a boyscout. You complain about him and his hard line....look in the mirror, DH!

 

[Boeing Driver]

And you continue to make the same mistake you ignorant beeyatch.

There is NO COMPROMISE ON THE NIC.

You may wear a yellow lanyard which certainly means you have no brain.

SHUT THE F**K UP back at you.

Suckah.

One more time proving beyond a shadow of a doubt why AWA was the ONLY place that would hire these lowlifes. Getting hired by the scumbag outfit AWA is all they ever achieved on their own, and now they are trying to steal other pilot's jobs.

Actually not very surprising considering who they are and where they come from. Sad, but not very surprising at all...

Boeing Driver

Oh, and by the way lowlife - THERE WILL BE COMPROMISE ON THE NIC, OR THERE WILL BE NO JOINT LIST EVER. See I can shout too. Have a nice day.

 

[luvn737s]

How about each poster who was furloughed at the date of the merger put a lowercase f next to their signature so that we can at least see the perspective they are taking. And don't start in on the MDA crap, either you were an active mainline pilot flying aircraft operated by the mainline or you weren't. At least we can figure out who we're corresponding with.

 

[NoYellowNeck]

One more time proving beyond a shadow of a doubt why AWA was the ONLY place that would hire these lowlifes. Getting hired by the scumbag outfit AWA is all they ever achieved on their own, and now they are trying to steal other pilot's jobs.

Actually not very surprising considering who they are and where they come from. Sad, but not very surprising at all...

Boeing Driver

Oh, and by the way lowlife - THERE WILL BE COMPROMISE ON THE NIC, OR THERE WILL BE NO JOINT LIST EVER. See I can shout too. Have a nice day.

Both of you ignorant jackasses need to quit crying and STFU.

Bottom line here is that no Nic means LOA93 FOREVER. See, I'm shouting back.

As for calling other pilots low-lifes, you need to take a long look at yourselves. You've murdered passengers, wrecked airplanes, put winglets through rudders, taxied into the dirt, etc.

The only lowlifes are you. You bring this entire industry down with LOA93. OALs can't stand you guys. You're scum.

And now that your PI Committee is dead in the water, your hopes of a comfortable retirement are gone.

Its time for you to consider quitting.

Now you have a nice day.

Suckah.

 

[JoeFL77]

How about each poster who was furloughed at the date of the merger put a lowercase f next to their signature so that we can at least see the perspective they are taking. And don't start in on the MDA crap, either you were an active mainline pilot flying aircraft operated by the mainline or you weren't. At least we can figure out who we're corresponding with.

The MDA thing is a big thing. They were mainline. Same operating certificate, FOM, paycheck number, chief pilot, jumpsea IVR and members on the ALPA LEC.

So instead of "career expectations", let's tallk the actual future. With the closing of LAS, the west is flying a net of 20% East flying. So with out the merger, 20% of the West would be furloughed. in reality, I didn't take your job. You aquired 20% of my seniority.

Have a nice evening.

Joe

 

[No Land Green]

Both of you ignorant jackasses need to quit crying and STFU.

Bottom line here is that no Nic means LOA93 FOREVER. See, I'm shouting back.

As for calling other pilots low-lifes, you need to take a long look at yourselves. You've murdered passengers, wrecked airplanes, put winglets through rudders, taxied into the dirt, etc.

The only lowlifes are you. You bring this entire industry down with LOA93. OALs can't stand you guys. You're scum.

And now that your PI Committee is dead in the water, your hopes of a comfortable retirement are gone.

Its time for you to consider quitting.

Now you have a nice day.

Suckah.

Little angry are we?

 

[Harry Callahan]

Little angry are we?

Not only angry but a idiot.....I've got him on ignore so the only reason I saw what he wrote was in your quote.