US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

BORING! Once again an article that is OVER ONE DECADE OLD. Luv, why don't you find something on this subject that is within the past 12 months (no fair using USAPA media shill Ted Reed).
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You just can't seem to see a pattern now can you? Complaints Alan Farnham, 06.11.01



Almost 1,500 people filed complaints against America West last year-the highest rate in the industry. Only 338 lodged gripes against Southwest (lowest).
Never mind all the horror stories you hear about United, plagued in the past year by weather delays, pilot slowdowns and nightmarish news footage of stranded moms and toddlers napping on linoleum. Day in and day out, America West has angered more of its passengers in more ways than any other carrier.

On a volume-adjusted basis, AmWest ticks off 16 times as many people as best-performer Southwest (nyse: LUV - news - people ) (and twice as many as the industry average). Ecomplaints, which collects and analyzes consumer complaint data, says disgruntled AmWesters are more likely than other travelers to switch carriers-permanently. It also notes that there may be 20 fuming fliers for every one that bothers to complain in writing.

AmWest (nyse: AWA - news - people ) almost goes out of its way to cultivate rocky relations with its work force, and employee bile poisons every public interaction. A senior executive at a rival airline says he has never seen a carrier whose approach to workers was so confrontational. "Employees feel they're being used," he says. "It's tough to get them to win one for the Gipper."

AmWest is the kind of employer that fires people on Christmas Eve (500 technicians in early December 1995). It took nearly five years to negotiate a first contract with flight attendants. Pilots, in a fit of pique, deliberately flew extraordinarily fast to burn extra fuel. Arriving early at their destinations, they would circle to kill time. This, says a former AmWest executive, was standard practice. The customers aren't any less bitter. In 1998 Sherry Layne of Glendale, Ariz., who is blind, was returning home from Baltimore. She was booked in first class, but a rowmate objected to her Seeing Eye dog. AmWest should have required the uncooperative passenger to relocate, but instead it stuck Layne in the last row of coach. When she complained to airline chief William Franke, an assistant responded: "Our personnel were able to accommodate you on that flight. I'm disappointed you feel this constitutes a violation of your rights." The Department of Transportation disagreed and issued a fine (later waived).

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96023&page=1

 

[crazystnic]

I've got some swampland for sale if you believe that....

All USAPA's C&R's do is cause the backward progression of the west pilots to take longer than a system flush.

Jim

Jim that is utter BS.. you keep attacking the CR's but your wrong again.

 

[cleardirect]

,

Clear,

Your math may be accurate, but the problem is not always mathmatical.

If you look at years of service and the time left before retirement, that is where the equation gets lopsided. Let's say an East FO is 100 numbers from recovering his Cpt seat, but only has 5 yrs left before retirement.

On the other hand, a West FO is 35 yrs old and is, say 500 numbers from Cpt.

If we end up with DOH, the East FO has a change to fly his last 3-4 yrs in the lft seat and recover a small portion of the wages he lost during his downgrade. The West FO has to wait, say, 5-6 yrs to upgrade, but has about another 25 yrs of Cpt wages to accumulate.

However, if we end up with the NIC, the East FO could very likely retire in the same position he is in, and not recover anything. The West FO moves up much more quickly and due to attrition, upgrades in 3 yrs instead of 5-6.......BUT STILL HAS 28 yrs of Cpt wages ahead of him.

I believe that a huge elephant in the room that doesn't come into play with numbers is the fact that you guys will own this airline in another 6-8 yrs. Not only that, there are C&Rs to protect your positions in PHX. All we want is to have a chance to regain what we lost when the company parked 101 jets, furloughing 1958 pilots via Force Majure after 9/11, (which, btw, we invested $9 billion in wages to maintain our careers). Then you guys can have it all, we don't care and hope it just gets better for you as time moves on. We are not secretly making plans to bid into PHX.....there is enough adversity to dissuade that.

breeze

That is an argument that should have been made during the arbitration not used to justify stealing after the fact. Arbitrators look at the facts today not what might happen 10-20-30 years from now.

Your entire theory is based on a false premise. The average age of the west F/O's is 46 not 35. So using DOH the west F/O's would never recover. Besides you should know better than anyone accepting a promise of payment sometime in the future in the airline business is a bad bet. How have those IOU's for the 190's or the 757 worked out for the west? You guys have already collected. But you want us to wait even longer. Not going to happen.

Your own numbers guy said the longest an east pilot would have to wait using Nicolau is 2 years. Your own calculation under estimated is 4-5 years, more like 7-8 years for a west guy to see the left seat. What would you call that? Windfall using DOH?

If you want to collect your $9 billion call Wolfe don't try and take it from the west pilots. We will not let you take our careers and replace them with yours.

 

[luvn737s]

If you want to collect your $9 billion call Wolfe don't try and take it from the west pilots. We will not let you take our careers and replace them with yours.

I actually stood up in front of my keyboard and gave that post a standing ovation!

 

[luvn737s]

Luv9 seems to be carrying water for Nos now. Shame, really.

 

[john john]

Arbitrators look at the facts today not what might happen 10-20-30 years from now.

You mean career expectations

 

[IADair]

Hello Ground Hogs, Ground Hog day, day after day, Bill Murray did it a lot better, USAPA is not funny. Same old broken record, yellowneckers, yellowbellies. It is useless to try to use reason, logic, honor with these people, dont bother trying. Binding arbitration, look up that definition yellow bellies, You guys were going into chapter 7, you got bailed out, you still fail to realize that, you are lucky you have a job at us airways. It is like a company is in trouble so it makes a deal to give up 50 percent ownership to get bailed out, then when the company gets back on its feet BECAUSE OF THE BAILOUT, it starts crying, whining about the terms. usapa is a bunch of pickleballers and dont even know it, they have no clue. Dont try to reason with them, it is not possible.

All I can say, that the IRS can investigate anyone that has tax deductions, claiming an office, the feds can investigate anyone that took fema funds because of a flood, the feds just need to make sure that everything is legal that is all, nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with making sure no fraud was committed in getting permits to build, no fraud committed through their city council, village, etc. Please feds investigate all americans involved in such activity. If someone committed fraud at home do you think they would commit fraud at work. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, allegations, rumor well you cant go by that, you must investigate, Obama you must investigate.

 

[luvthe9]

Luv9 seems to be carrying water for Nos now. Shame, really.

Strike a nerve son?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

If you want to collect your $9 billion call Wolfe don't try and take it from the west pilots. We will not let you take our careers and replace them with yours.
[/quote]
LFMFAO pleez get over yourself! MM!

 

[flypg]

Actually, you sir, seem awfully desperate to "minimize" DOH. Why the vitriol? Do you accurately (finally) sense that your "award" is circling the drain?

As explained by others, the Empire dudes were given many chances to right that "wrong". I believe they were originally given DOH for everything but a/c bidding outside the aircraft they brought to the property, the F-28. In return they were brought onto PAI retirement, which at the time was quite a beneficial plan.

As an aside, when the moronic ALPA MEC, "led" by PHL's newest chief pilot coffee fetcher and all around BJ, gave away the US retirement, the Empire dudes should have been restored their DOH for everything, restoring their quid pro quo, but the criminal cretins running ALPA were only thinking of themselves. I do not expect someone of such limited IQ to understand but maybe those who still speak to you can explain.

As posted by Res, acceptance is now "democratic", by a vote of a majority, courtesy USAPA. That, by itself, in a rational world, should eliminate any DFR lawsuits, but the atmosphere in PHX is hardly sane. Before, under ALPA, either party could nix any merged contract, and USAPA should be a significant improvement for the future chances of the westies to actually operate something bigger than a single aisle aircraft. Not that I agree with that situation, but, it is what it is.

Another of the "unsung" benefits the east pilots have "given" to the west.

24% of east flying were "given" to the west, saving team tempe from having to "create" pilot jobs in the west. Assuming total east flying was (at least) twice that of the west, that represents almost a 50% gain for the west and "saved" one third west pilot jobs from furlough, assuming the west was just as efficient as the east.

In return (can one say scam?) 4% or west flying went to the east, resulting in a "give back" to the east of some 2% flying. Big whoop!

I, riding west jump seats, believe the DOH/conditions and restrictions meme is taking hold in the west.

Our common enemy are the cretinous (drunk?) morons in tempe who seem quite adept at failing wet dreams.

Our enemy is not each other. Your "winning lottery ticket" was voided long ago. Try keeping up.

Hey, did you hear AA purchased 1000 new aircraft at the Paris Air Show? I heard Mr. Parker, in his normal drunken stupor and in response, ordered 37,000 new lanyards. So there!

Tit for tat, and all that.

Dang Club !...Perfect, true and needed to be said.


flypg

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The WEST, wanting to "OPTIMIZE" their career's at the expense of the EAST, "WORD UP, your job in the desert is like sand in the wind, look at DOOGIES latest crew news and the economy, 17 hour 4days, get used to it! MM! Hey it's a career every EAST pilot dreams of! LMAO!

 

[traderjake]

You just can't seem to see a pattern now can you?

I can.

5 in 5.

2.5 pilot error.

 

[mikey60]

No. You're simply choosing an LOA 93 retirement. You are in the extreme minority. Remember that democracy rules when nic hits you up side the head.

Ames you reincarnated into a " res judicata" sorta like a ugly brown worm turning into a ugly brown thing that cant fly. LOA 93 for as long as I'm gonna be here is fine with me. But I think your lifestyle is in for a big change...soon. OH ! How is your little story coming along....you know the east Captain getting fired by the west f/o.

 

[fodase]

T 17 hour 4days, get used to it! MM!

LOL, do you know how much that pays in the west contract? what an idiot.

 

[cactusboy53]

The WEST, wanting to "OPTIMIZE" their career's at the expense of the EAST, "WORD UP, your job in the desert is like sand in the wind, look at DOOGIES latest crew news and the economy, 17 hour 4days, get used to it! MM! Hey it's a career every EAST pilot dreams of! LMAO!

I'm not sure what you're talking about Chief, but we get 5:15 a day (that is a minimum of 21:00 for a four day). If there is 3:00 DH in that pairing, we get all 100%. Mut, you just exude psycho-babble. LATWTTB (Laughing All The Way To The Bank).

BTW, your posts are some of the favorites that I share with my co-workers. I am asked frequently if your posts are authentic. I usually respond...."If you only knew!".