US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

I think you are hearing some interesting news. You have to move along as you finally realized LOA93 had a smoking deal in it!

More like a smoking gun in it, and yes that is a hole in usapa's foot.

I have not heard anything about LOA93, other than what is on this board and the company's 12??16?? page explanation of why usapa is going to lose.

Reading both side arguements, I think usapa lost. But, ya never know. I really do not care, win or lose it is all upsides for the West.

 

[Res Judicata]

Like Kasher gives a rats ass about and the Nic. Incoming!

Kasher has nothing at all to do with the Nic. award. You lost the LOA93 grievance. Period. Any pay/work rule gains will be done exactly where we have always been telling you, at the negotiating table minus an Illegal DOH demand.

IOW, the Nic.

Until then, LOA93 which I know for a fact will live on until you realize you've been digging a hole deeper and deeper for years.

The real question is: and I plan on repeating this until I get an answer, is NOW THAT LOA 93 IS DEAD, WILL THEY ALLOW THE ENTIRE MEMBERSHIP TO VOTE ON A NEW DIRECTION?

My guess is an emphatic "No". They know the membership is ready to move on up absolutely refuse to listen to the democratic vote...that's why all the dictator jokes.

 

[Res Judicata]

I did hear from a reliable source yesterday, that Kasher's decision was released to the parties just over a week ago and we will hear something soon.

breeze

Exactly, given the fact that USLAPPY has YET to provide one single solitary benefit/win to a single solitary member in nearly 4 years, USAPY would give themselves a mass aneurysm if they tried to hold in the "good news". Bad news is much easier to contain, after all, they're experts at that.

 

[nic4us]

Good post.

The answer....the greedy ones......the ones who took that false lottery ticket to the lowest level possible, and thought..." I won....here is my ticket, right here in my grubby little hands......screw all of the pilot brotherhood......I never really cared for them and what they stand for anyway. I'm rich......BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Screw everone else!!!!"

Hey Breeze,

When all is said and done, if you end up stealing the West's seniority through the scab union, the difference between a West pilot and an east pilot will be that I would still lend a West pilot money, my car, maybe even let them stay in my house. But, I would not trust a reneging east scab to give me the time of day.

There is your "lottery ticket".

 

[mrbreeze]

Kasher has nothing at all to do with the Nic. award. You lost the LOA93 grievance. Period. Any pay/work rule gains will be done exactly where we have always been telling you, at the negotiating table minus an Illegal DOH demand.

IOW, the Nic.

Until then, LOA93 which I know for a fact will live on until you realize you've been digging a hole deeper and deeper for years.

The real question is: and I plan on repeating this until I get an answer, is NOW THAT LOA 93 IS DEAD, WILL THEY ALLOW THE ENTIRE MEMBERSHIP TO VOTE ON A NEW DIRECTION?

My guess is an emphatic "No". They know the membership is ready to move on up absolutely refuse to listen to the democratic vote...that's why all the dictator jokes.

I assume that by "they", you mean USAPA.

Res, a lot is hingeing on the Kasher decision. If LOA93 is a loss, which I am not hearing that, and with the spring USAPA elections, I don't think the incumbants are going to be in control. I really believe that most East pilots decided early on to wait it out until Kasher's decision before choosing any direction for the future, especially in accepting a contract with the NIC incluced.

We sill know something soon.

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

I did hear from a reliable source yesterday, that Kasher's decision was released to the parties just over a week ago and we will hear something soon.

breeze

breeze. Think it through. If the DECISION was released last week why is the company and grievance HOLDING it? What possible reason would it not be released right away?

What I heard was the draft was released a few weeks ago. Executive session still needs to happen. That could be a few more months. I don't expect a DECISION until Nov, Dec. time frame. Then you will find out about losing LOA 93.

One more thing to think about. Even if you win LOA 93. It has to go back to Kasher for remedy. That means no check for a loooong time. How long has it taken the grievance granny to collect money for the west on TA 10? Oh yeah still waiting. Over a year and that was a "win".

 

[Move2CLT]

Those easties never mention the remedy phase. Wonder why?

 

[mrbreeze]

Hey Breeze,

When all is said and done, if you end up stealing the West's seniority through the scab union, the difference between a West pilot and an east pilot will be that I would still lend a West pilot money, my car, maybe even let them stay in my house. But, I would not trust a reneging east scab to give me the time of day.

There is your "lottery ticket".

Ah....you went back on your word....told me you would drop the scab word. LOL

There is the difference in the East and West. You say we are stealing something from you while we are adamant in just maintaining our East seniority for a few more years until retirement......the whole ball of wax.

Again, you do not own the NIC, only your AWA DOH of hire at this point. However, that really doesn't even matter with the way things are playing out.

Wouldn't it be a shame that if we win LOA93......you have to struggle along at AB Cpt rates of $185/hr instead of $145/hr that you now have, instead of a 330 Cpt at $220/hr, just for another 5 yrs till we are all dead and gone? Good God man, that is not much more than one initial ground school training cycle.

Either way, you come out ahead, but you guys want to keep me in the right seat when I am 15 yrs senior and am just trying to recapture the left seat before retirement. I am not asking you for "mercy", just explaining my position that is not negotiatable.

You know that if you answer yes....you are just admitting to your greed.

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

BS,

I have also heard that.

I have to wonder....if AB Cpt rate goes to $185 and the AB FO rate goes to about $115, my bad!.......why can't these West guys get behind this, support it, and leave us alone while most of us to retire in the next 5 yrs or so?

Instead, they want to jump ahead of people with my seniority and keep me in the right seat for my last 5 yrs.

Oh, my bad......I forgot.....they freakin' saved us. It doesn't matter what we think...it's all about them.

breeze

So the truth comes out. You are a 60 year old F/O hoping to steal your way into the left seat. You own numbers guys said that the longest anyone would wait at the bottom of the list is 2 years using the Nicolau list. Are you at the bottom of the list? Stand alone how much longer before you upgrade? So retire in 5 years making $85 an hour I don't care. Your career sucked and the west is not going to let you replace your crappy career at the expense of the west career.


I guess we could ask the same question. Why won't you east guys leave us alone and accept what you agreed to? What about the west F/O that are waiting for the left seat? Using the Nicolau east F/O upgrade a 2 for every 3 openings. Using DOH you want them all. Why should they wait 5 years for east F/O's to take what is not theirs? Why should you get paid now and make the west wait? Why are you entitled?

 

[cleardirect]

Ah....you went back on your word....told me you would drop the scab word. LOL

There is the difference in the East and West. You say we are stealing something from you while we are adamant in just maintaining our East seniority for a few more years until retirement......the whole ball of wax.

Again, you do not own the NIC, only your AWA DOH of hire at this point. However, that really doesn't even matter with the way things are playing out.

Wouldn't it be a shame that if we win LOA93......you have to struggle along at AB Cpt rates of $185/hr instead of $145/hr that you now have, instead of a 330 Cpt at $220/hr, just for another 5 yrs till we are all dead and gone? Good God man, that is not much more than one initial ground school training cycle.

Either way, you come out ahead, but you guys want to keep me in the right seat when I am 15 yrs senior and am just trying to recapture the left seat before retirement. I am not asking you for "mercy", just explaining my position that is not negotiatable.

You know that if you answer yes....you are just admitting to your greed.

breeze

Nicolau looked at your position. He disagreed with it and designed something else. You are right about one thing. It is not negotiatable. It is the Nicolau and nothing else. You are the one that just explained your greed. You want to take it now and make the west west wait 5 years so you can have what you could not convince the arbitrator you wanted.

Retire as an F/O at $85. That is your future. Accept it. Or accept the Nicolau and a new contract.

 

[Move2CLT]

No wonder breeze is so pissy. 60+ and an FO making less than $100 hr. and paying alimony. What a crap life.

 

[mrbreeze]

breeze. Think it through. If the DECISION was released last week why is the company and grievance HOLDING it? What possible reason would it not be released right away?

What I heard was the draft was released a few weeks ago. Executive session still needs to happen. That could be a few more months. I don't expect a DECISION until Nov, Dec. time frame. Then you will find out about losing LOA 93.

One more thing to think about. Even if you win LOA 93. It has to go back to Kasher for remedy. That means no check for a loooong time. How long has it taken the grievance granny to collect money for the west on TA 10? Oh yeah still waiting. Over a year and that was a "win".

I am no expert by any means, but from what I understand, Kasher issues his decision and the parties have 30 days to discuss/debate and come up with a final doctrine. When the note came out that Kasher had recovered from hip surgery and was back on the job, he stated that he thought he would have a decision on LOA93 in a couple of months. At the time, I remember adding 2 months to the time frame of that statement, then 30 days for discussion/remedy, and came up with the end of Sept. Just my ball park thoughts. It was explained to me that with thid kind of arbatration, being RLA, it can't be allowed to be drawn out and the 90 days is the limit. I have also heard that management has already put the cash aside just in case they have to pay....that is rumor, of course.

I believe we are getting close, which is going to be good for all of us, regardless of the outcome, and I believe that the company doesn't have the law on their side as far as dragging this thing out.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

So the truth comes out. So retire in 5 years making $85 an hour I don't care.

That, sir, demontrates your greed.

If we win LOA93 and you get a $40k/yr raise.....A HUGE BONUS FOR YOU, you still want to cash in your flawed lottery ticket to screw anyone who that you can. Pure greed.

 

[Move2CLT]

Naive. Completely naive. The company is partially reponsible for dragging this out now. They're waiting for the injunction to be issued prior to the announcement.

 

[mrbreeze]

Nicolau looked at your position. He disagreed with it and designed something else. You are right about one thing. It is not negotiatable. It is the Nicolau and nothing else. You are the one that just explained your greed. You want to take it now and make the west west wait 5 years so you can have what you could not convince the arbitrator you wanted.

Retire as an F/O at $85. That is your future. Accept it. Or accept the Nicolau and a new contract.

You look at the truth....NIC fuc===ed it up and did noone any favors at this company. It was a mistake from day one.