US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

I only wish we could find a way to return the favor.

Nic will set you free.

 

[cleardirect]

I am no expert by any means, but from what I understand, Kasher issues his decision and the parties have 30 days to discuss/debate and come up with a final doctrine. When the note came out that Kasher had recovered from hip surgery and was back on the job, he stated that he thought he would have a decision on LOA93 in a couple of months. At the time, I remember adding 2 months to the time frame of that statement, then 30 days for discussion/remedy, and came up with the end of Sept. Just my ball park thoughts. It was explained to me that with thid kind of arbatration, being RLA, it can't be allowed to be drawn out and the 90 days is the limit. I have also heard that management has already put the cash aside just in case they have to pay....that is rumor, of course.

I believe we are getting close, which is going to be good for all of us, regardless of the outcome, and I believe that the company doesn't have the law on their side as far as dragging this thing out.

breeze

You understand wrong.

Hearing held Feb. 2010. Final briefs delayed by usapa until June 2010. Rumor draft finally out about Aug 2011. End of Sept still no decision. How does that fit into your "I heard" timeline? If the decision is out why is usapa allowing the company to hold the decision? What law are you pointing to that the company can't drag out? When do you think the 90 day clock started?

"The company already put the cash aside". Right think about it. You guys say it is $185 per hour. Read the transcripts. The company has said that it is $145 million per year. So you think the company put aside $260 million even though Parker, Kirby and Isom have all said that they are 100% sure the company will win.

It has taken usapa over a year to get to the remedy of T/A 10. Less than a one time $1 million payment. How long do you think it would take to settle $145 million per year every year? Even if Kasher gives you something you are never going to see the money. The west holds the Nicolau award. Have we see that yet? A motivated company can delay forever. Especially with a weak union on the other side.

 

[cleardirect]

BECAUSE I WAS HIRED AT LEAST 15 YRS AHEAD OF YOU!!!!!!! To put it on a childish level that you might understand....I was here first!

breeze

It is time to realize that when you got hired does not matter. DOH is not part of the matrix. Is that simple enough for you to understand.

 

[Move2CLT]

BECAUSE I WAS HIRED AT LEAST 15 YRS AHEAD OF YOU!!!!!!! To put it on a childish level that you might understand....I was here first!

breeze

Breeze, you got hired at accident-prone AAA, not LCC. End of story. Don't reply if you agree with me.

 

[Move2CLT]

It's going to be fun watching breeze, swan, and driver being dragged off tthe airport by the CIRP guys screaming " I was here"first.

 

[cleardirect]

I think you are quite wrong if back pay is included in the award they will have to pay as they did in the USA3000 award Kasher did, we will not negotiate in any way nor do we have to, no talks at all till the retro pay is in our pockets and the new rate is on my pay stub, then we might talk. And I know as much as the west guys don't deserve a penny for the way they have been to us we still need to get them up to our new pay. I'm sure that wont be a popular comment. just my opinion.

9 you crack me up in your simple thinking. Do you really believe that if Kasher is fooled and says you get snap back that the next day you are going to get a check for $100,000 plus a new rate? Really?

The west has tried to explain that IF you win you have to then go back to Kasher for the remedy. T/A 10 has waited over a year. Unless usapa has been intentionally delaying because it is a benefit for the west? That will drag on forever. You are not going to get a check the next day. Look at what you said.

we will not negotiate in any way nor do we have to, no talks at all till the retro pay is in our pockets and the new rate is on my pay stub,

Explain how you are going to get a retro check and new pay rate without negotiating? Kasher is not going to put a rate out. IF you win it is between the company and usapa to come up with a rate. Unless you can point to the contract that defines the rate. Could you post the language?

But it does not matter because you are not going to win that arbitration. It is going to be a disappointing fall for you east pilots.

The way we (the west) have been to you. Are you kidding me? It was the east that walked out of JNC. It was the east that sued the west MEC. It was the east that forced the west out of our union into a union design and run by the east. It was the east that threatened to fired hundreds of west pilots. It was the east that sued west pilots for RICO. It was the east that removes or refuses to put west pilots on committees. So don't even talk about how the west has been. You east pilots have caused all of this trouble and delay. At least accept that responsibility.

 

[A320 Driver]

Here's the problem with your request: WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO YOU. What's to return?

Really???
What do you call all the "5 in 5" trash talk and the continual assault on the professionalism and commitment of this pilot group. You people make light of the blood spilt on the ground and the effort it took to not only keep this airline alive, but accept, embrace and become industry leaders in CRM, Error Management, and AQP. One issue (the NIC) made it personal and it should not be so. You back comments from posters like Move2CLT that do nothing but further divide the entire pilot group. Don't point the finger at USAPA without taking a good look at those of you on the West that dance with glee and make fun of the darkest days in an East pilots career.

THAT'S what you did. GOT IT???

Driver <_<

 

[nevergiveup]

9 you crack me up in your simple thinking. Do you really believe that if Kasher is fooled and says you get snap back that the next day you are going to get a check for $100,000 plus a new rate? Really?

The west has tried to explain that IF you win you have to then go back to Kasher for the remedy. T/A 10 has waited over a year. Unless usapa has been intentionally delaying because it is a benefit for the west? That will drag on forever. You are not going to get a check the next day. Look at what you said.



Explain how you are going to get a retro check and new pay rate without negotiating? Kasher is not going to put a rate out. IF you win it is between the company and usapa to come up with a rate. Unless you can point to the contract that defines the rate. Could you post the language?

But it does not matter because you are not going to win that arbitration. It is going to be a disappointing fall for you east pilots.

The way we (the west) have been to you. Are you kidding me? It was the east that walked out of JNC. It was the east that sued the west MEC. It was the east that forced the west out of our union into a union design and run by the east. It was the east that threatened to fired hundreds of west pilots. It was the east that sued west pilots for RICO. It was the east that removes or refuses to put west pilots on committees. So don't even talk about how the west has been. You east pilots have caused all of this trouble and delay. At least accept that responsibility.

Should have gone for a fence. Too late now. time for lunch!

 

[Move2CLT]

Should have gone for a fence. Too late now. time for lunch!

We offered 7 years. You guys said no. Too late now. How's LOA93?

 

[cleardirect]

Really???
What do you call all the "5 in 5" trash talk and the continual assault on the professionalism and commitment of this pilot group. You people make light of the blood spilt on the ground and the effort it took to not only keep this airline alive, but accept, embrace and become industry leaders in CRM, Error Management, and AQP. One issue (the NIC) made it personal and it should not be so. You back comments from posters like Move2CLT that do nothing but further divide the entire pilot group. Don't point the finger at USAPA without taking a good look at those of you on the West that dance with glee and make fun of the darkest days in an East pilots career.

THAT'S what you did. GOT IT???

Driver <_<

But you give the AAA MEC a pass when they started with calling the west inexperienced rookies. When AAA MEC sued the west MEC. When usapa sued west pilots for RICO. When several east pilots started posting 10 year old articles about drunk pilot or drug running. You have nothing to say about that?

You east pilots started this fight and the west is going to finish it. You guys set the rules we are just playing by them. If your airline reputation is crap that is your problem and we just point it out. If you don't like your history to bad.

The east pilots started this because you refuse to honor your agreements. You have no one to blame but yourselves.

 

[prechilill]

But you give the AAA MEC a pass when they started with calling the west inexperienced rookies. When AAA MEC sued the west MEC. When usapa sued west pilots for RICO. When several east pilots started posting 10 year old articles about drunk pilot or drug running. You have nothing to say about that?

In a nutshell, yes, he will. That's east "objectivity" Clear!

 

[Black Swan]

Keep grasping at those straws... I guess you think Parker says nothing but the truth in crew news sessions and lies in legal filings... You were better off claiming that the AP movie was proof...

ALPA presented the integrated seniority list mandated by the Nicolau Award to US Airways in late 2007, and, as required by the Transition Agreement, US Airways accepted that integrated seniority list on December 20, 2007.

Jim

The usual constipated straw grasp retort. Where is the list they are REQUIRED to give to us with the Nic? Nowhere because it was never accepted and sent to print. Parker backs me with every crew talk.

 

[Black Swan]

9 you crack me up in your simple thinking. Do you really believe that if Kasher is fooled and says you get snap back that the next day you are going to get a check for $100,000 plus a new rate? Really?

The west has tried to explain that IF you win you have to then go back to Kasher for the remedy. T/A 10 has waited over a year. Unless usapa has been intentionally delaying because it is a benefit for the west? That will drag on forever. You are not going to get a check the next day. Look at what you said.



Explain how you are going to get a retro check and new pay rate without negotiating? Kasher is not going to put a rate out. IF you win it is between the company and usapa to come up with a rate. Unless you can point to the contract that defines the rate. Could you post the language?

But it does not matter because you are not going to win that arbitration. It is going to be a disappointing fall for you east pilots.

The way we (the west) have been to you. Are you kidding me? It was the east that walked out of JNC. It was the east that sued the west MEC. It was the east that forced the west out of our union into a union design and run by the east. It was the east that threatened to fired hundreds of west pilots. It was the east that sued west pilots for RICO. It was the east that removes or refuses to put west pilots on committees. So don't even talk about how the west has been. You east pilots have caused all of this trouble and delay. At least accept that responsibility.

Clear, you make it abundantly clear, you don't have a clue how it works in an arbitration. You act as if all arbitrations have a remedy phase, and try to imply that there is a period where there takes place negotiations again.Your statement implying the company and USAPA have to come up with a rate is the stupidest idea of all.If USAPA wins, Kasher will give the rate, and Parker will pay. What would be the purpose of the arbitrator in a pay dispute when two parties cannot agree? If they can't agree in the first place, why would they suddenly agree? Unbelievabley naive. When Kasher gives his award, he will give a remedy. There is no "phase" here, he will give detailed instructions as to what he has awarded. If he finds USAPA is to be awarded, he will give the specifics, and the company will have to comply. The only way there will be a phase of any kind, is if USAPA agrees to negotiate with the company to do otherwise, at their discretion. This will be BINDING, unlike your Nicolau experiment. Which was simply an internal union bargaining position that USAPA is not bound to. Boeing Boy will get a quick education when this goes down. Your negotiating idea is preposterous. You are clearly out of your league here. Nobody expects a retro check the next day. What we will expect, is the full amount, paid according to a reasonable plan. Speaking of payments, how are the repayments on the training over pay going? Are you negotiating that one?

 

[Move2CLT]

Swan, you're incorrect.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The usual constipated straw grasp retort. Where is the list they are REQUIRED to give to us with the Nic? Nowhere because it was never accepted and sent to print. Parker backs me with every crew talk.

You have the list the East contract calls for, or have access to it. Do you not? Assuming that a single contract continues to contain a requirement to publish an annual list, then the Nic will be that list. As big a deal as you've made of separate contracts over the years since Nic published his award, one would think you'd understand that but I guess those straws are too tempting...

I do love how you've gone from a "very specific definition" in the contract <retreat><retreat><retreat> through using a movie to support your fantasy <retreat> crew news <retreat> and the lack of a company published single list when the east contract doesn't call for that. You want your fantasy to come true so badly that you justify it with any notion that you can come up with - consistency be damned...

Jim