US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

The point was that I could have sworn that the FO was USA320Pilot, who consistantly posts his narrow minded view point on here and is wrong 99% of the time....not to mention that this FO had hair implants from 10 yrs ago, just like CM.

breeze

I believe CM is a Captain.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Just look at your post - quoted someone then addressed the response to me...



What? Back you for taking me to task for what someone else posted? Call CIRP now...before it's too late...

Jim

For demanding proof, it is all about you! Get a life! or a job!

 

[BoeingBoy]

What are you mumbling about now...

You screwed up - admit it and move on.

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

Actually, only part right. The B6 pilots were ALPA - representing the much smaller group. The WN pilots certainly had the numbers to drive the process, from getting a single carrier status through the NMB, to being ruled the single CBA, to trying to inflict whatever SLI they wanted short of a staple job on the B6 pilots. But knowing that a federal law has bearing on the process and that a negotiated settle was better for everyone involved, they chose not to flex their numerical majority muscles after seeing the mess that produced at US.

Jim

The mess was ALPA totally screwed up this deal, and ALPA and the west were too stupid to rectify it. It cost ALPA millions, it cost the west their chance for a contract for years. If the East prevails in LOA 93, the statement : ALL THE RISK LIES WITH THE WEST" will come home to roost in a stark reality.



Bill_Wilder says:
August 18, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I didn’t say the process was flawed, I stated that the arbitration award didn’t conform to the arbitration agreement reflected in ALPA merger policy. It is well-established that you can challenge awards on that basis.

And the “process” worked at DAL/NWA because–for the first time in the history of ALPA Merger Policy–a three-arbitrator panel (with no pilot representatives was used.) ALPA didn’t trust that transaction to the typical merger process–doubtless in light of the AAA/AWA process.

“There is no compromise left” is a ridiculous statement. It was attitudes like that that caused the Wye River effort to fail and ALPA to lose the election to USAPA. And for there to be no combined CBA four years after the merger. A great track record of success.

 

[cleardirect]

The mess was ALPA totally screwed up this deal, and ALPA and the west were too stupid to rectify it. It cost ALPA millions, it cost the west their chance for a contract for years.

Interesting how you left out any responsibility of the east pilots. Always someone else's fault with you guys.

Reality check. It was the east pilots that failed to bargain in good faith DURING the N/M/A phase. It was the east pilots that failed to accept after the results. It was the east pilots that have cost this pilot group hundreds of millions in delaying the contract.

The first step is admitting your mistake. We are all still waiting for that step.

 

[cleardirect]

I would think that you might, by now, be aware that the east saved the west, and any decision against the east might have grievous and deleterious effects against west flying. Just sayin' You have already stolen 24% of the flying from the east. Ain't any more going to "save" you slackers.

I hope you enjoy furloughs. I hear freight is hiring.

Just how did you "save" the west? Your airline had no money and a pile of debt. Read the LOA transcripts. They were about to issue a going concern letter. That means you were out of business. Parker has said you were out of business. End of story. So you did not save anything.

Just how has the west "stolen" 24% of "your" flying? Do you think the west pilots are in charge of the airline? did we someone force Parker to give it to us? Oh yeah simply living up to the T/A you think is stealing. If we stole the flying why has usapa allowed the company to do that? Weak union?

BTW one of you guys said that you generously gave the west the flying. Do try and get your stories straight. The company decides where the flying goes. Using your logic did the east "steal" Hawaii flying from the west?

Your anger i showing.

 

[Black Swan]

Interesting how you left out any responsibility of the east pilots. Always someone else's fault with you guys.

Reality check. It was the east pilots that failed to bargain in good faith DURING the N/M/A phase. It was the east pilots that failed to accept after the results. It was the east pilots that have cost this pilot group hundreds of millions in delaying the contract.

The first step is admitting your mistake. We are all still waiting for that step.

Maybe the east did make the first mistake. But when the West was sat down by ALPA and told to compromise at WYE, they walked, ending the chance for dialogue. Seems Wilder understands the issue better than all of us involved in it directly.......


Bill_Wilder says:
August 18, 2009 at 12:59 pm
We can debate all the legalities you like. The reality is there is an intractable dispute. The West extremists waive their arbitration award and shout “give me your job.” The East extremists scream “date of hire” and there is no resolution.

It’s stupid to go on and on about the “finalities of award” when the reality is you have to get an agreement to resolve the dispute. The judge’s order solves nothing because Judge Wake can’t order to East pilots to vote for a combined CBA. If they vote no to avoid implementation of the Nicolau Award then the dispute won’t be resolved.

So that’s the decision both the East and West have to make. Stand in your separate corners and yell your useless slogans, “date of hire” “Nicolau Award”–or solve the dispute. Without that, the dispute looks like it will go on and on.

 

[luvthe9]

So that’s the decision both the East and West have to make. Stand in your separate corners and yell your useless slogans, “date of hire” “Nicolau Award”–or solve the dispute. Without that, the dispute looks like it will go on and on.

But in the mean time I think the east will be getting a very nice raise and alot of movement on the senoirity list. The west will just have to keep those donations coming in and enjoy the stagnation Furguson and AOL has brought to the west pilots.

 

[No Land Green]

Reality check. It was the east pilots that failed to bargain in good faith DURING the N/M/A phase. It was the east pilots that failed to accept after the results. It was the east pilots that have cost this pilot group hundreds of millions in delaying the contract.

As told to me by an East Merger Committee member, the West didn't care about Monda, it was Colello they were concerned about. Hence we are where we are today. "Keep your eye on the prize", what exactly does that mean in the eye's of a West Pilot.....I think we all know the answer on the East side.

 

[BoeingBoy]

... enjoy the stagnation Furguson and AOL has brought to the west pilots.

As opposed to the long-term stagnation that the east wants to impose on them?

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

But in the mean time I think the east will be getting a very nice raise and alot of movement on the senoirity list. The west will just have to keep those donations coming in and enjoy the stagnation Furguson and AOL has brought to the west pilots.

Stagnation brought by the east by not accepting arbitration. I know if the west had only rolled over and caved to the demands of the east. Right!

 

[luvthe9]

As opposed to the long-term stagnation that the east wants to impose on them?

Jim

Yes, your starting to get for once, everybody waits in line for their turn and in the mean time we have to do whatever it takes to bring them up to our new pay scale should we win.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So if I go to Wendy's I can't be served till you are at McDonald's? I, and anyone behind me at Wendy's, have to twiddle out thumbs till you're served at MickeyDee's? If, by some twist of fate, I get served first I have to give you my burger since you were in a line at a different burger joint first? "Interesting" logic...

At least you're admitting what you really want - the west to get nothing till the east gets everything it wants... :blink:

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

Yes, your starting to get for once, everybody waits in line for their turn and in the mean time we have to do whatever it takes to bring them up to our new pay scale should we win.

"Should you win" At least you are admitting t is not a lock. Whatever it takes to bring us up. Right. I will hold my breath for that to happen. Since for the last 3.5 years usapa had been able to accomplish nothing. I fully expect that record to continue.

The west was standing in our line. This merger unlike how you want to think about it the west was not moved to your line. The lines were MERGED. So your furloughed guys that were not even standing in line are going to have to stand at the back of the rest of us. Your bottom reserve F/O are going to have to continue standing in line until it is their turn to upgrade. Not jump ahead.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

"Should you win" At least you are admitting t is not a lock. Whatever it takes to bring us up. Right. I will hold my breath for that to happen. Since for the last 3.5 years usapa had been able to accomplish nothing. I fully expect that record to continue.

The west was standing in our line. This merger unlike how you want to think about it the west was not moved to your line. The lines were MERGED. So your furloughed guys that were not even standing in line are going to have to stand at the back of the rest of us. Your bottom reserve F/O are going to have to continue standing in line until it is their turn to upgrade. Not jump ahead.

Sounds like the merger of lines will be by the time stamp(DOH) on you ticket.