US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Move2CLT,

The DCA reps hate Mike and Randy. Talk about man love your boys in PHX have become very close to the DCA boys. Our one rep in PHL seems to be chummy with the PHX and DCA reps. They all seem to do things together. (Notice of refusal) What a joke!

Hate

So Hate, you're obviously a man on the inside, , why do you think all those guys have suddenly turned on the majority?

 

[Black Swan]

This is going to be good! Here comes Underpants. This must be a special occasion!

 

[Pi brat]

I would if I were but I ain't so I won't.

Really?

On Sept 24th you posted:

"Downward trends?!?! Really? How many continuous quarters of profit did AWA show prior to the merger being announced? I'll give you a hint - its in the double digits."


From the AWA 10-K for 2004:

"During 2004, extremely high jet fuel prices and excess capacity throughout the domestic air system began to negatively impact the low cost segment of the airline industry. As a result, several low cost carriers that had previously operated profitably, including AWA, experienced declining earnings. AWA reported a net loss of $85.3 million for 2004.

In 2004, the Company reported a net loss of $89.0 million compared to net income of $57.4 million in 2003. See Item 7 – “Management’s Discussion and Analysis of Financial Condition and Results of Operations” for further discussion of the 2004 financial performance."


Here's a clue for you. Double digit quarters would mean more than 9, or at least 2.5 years. The merger was announced on May 19th, 2005 so for you to be correct, AWA would have had to have profits back to before the start of 2003. Clearly they didn't, hence you are WRONG.

Why is that so hard to admit? It's okay. We know all that kool aid does things to your brain, I think it is the artificial coloring.

Are you pre and jimbob all related?

 

[Hate2fly]

So Hate, you're obviously a man on the inside, , why do you think all those guys have suddenly turned on the majority?

Move2CLT,

They are members of the hate club against Mike. They feel like they lost their baby (USAPA). What they have to realize is that we all own USAPA. USAPA wasn't theirs. We all made it happen. Every single one of us that voted for USAPA. Cleary understands this. It is like the teamster talk we here out there on the line. Some guys always want someone else to do the fighting for them. It is all about personalities. I know all the players and they are all good guys. Money will bring togetherness.

Hate

 

[Captain Underpants]

If you look at the permanent bid packets for the east, there is attrition every bid, just not age 65 attrition which is where the bigger numbers are. Generally, more people go out on medical than return and there is a dribble of early retirements (at least I assume so since the bid packet doesn't say how many change their mind). I haven't really tracked the numbers, but 5-10 a month sounds about right. At the high end of that, and looking ahead toward the age 65 retirements kicking in, there may be a need for no more than about 200 replacements in 2013. But till toward the end of 2012 the dribble of hiring is about all you can expect. Assuming the fleet size remains static (+/- 1 or 2 planes), which I assume will be the case. Any changes up or down more than that would obviously alter the numbers needed. No more than 10% of attrition is needed for training float with a static fleet, and the lead time is 2-3 months, i.e., 100 line pilot retirements and 30 early/medical means no more than 13 pilots for the training float in 2013.

Oh, that's just east BTW.

Jim

Jim,

A couple of other variables would need to be considered. There are basically 4 pay levels East 190, A320, 767, and A330. If every pilot that could were to seek a higher paying position as a result of a single A330 Captain retiring it could trigger up to 8 training events not including the extra check pilots required. So 130 line pilot retirements and medicals triggering hundreds of training events would require a lot more than 13 pilots for the training float. The initial ramp up to the training float ratio will be closer to 2.0 than 1.1 until the retirements peak then it would slowly decline to below 1.0 again many years from now. Also aircraft utilization is very low now and could easily absorb a 15-20% increase in block hour per aircraft increase allowing the company to grow without adding aircraft with just a small incremental cost increase.

Other variables like the new crew rest rules, the recent drop in fuel prices, 737 phaseout, and A330 deliveries starting in 2013 could also require many additional pilots.

Just running conservative back of the envelope numbers it looks like the company will need at least 25 East new hires per month starting in early to mid 2012 and continuing indefinitely which matches what the training department has been told to expect.

Underpants

 

[Move2CLT]

No need to fish today. You are a ton of laughs. Keep up the humor.


Are you obsessed with male anatomy?

As are you green. Always a hoot.

And no, I'm not obsessed with male anatomy like Claxon is.. Are you? I just couldn't think of anything that could possibly make you LYOA.

And keep fishing.

 

[Move2CLT]

Move2CLT,

They are members of the hate club against Mike. They feel like they lost their baby (USAPA). What they have to realize is that we all own USAPA. USAPA wasn't theirs. We all made it happen. Every single one of us that voted for USAPA. Cleary understands this. It is like the teamster talk we here out there on the line. Some guys always want someone else to do the fighting for them. It is all about personalities. I know all the players and they are all good guys. Money will bring togetherness.

Hate

I don't hate Cleary at all Hate. In fact, I pledge to you that I will cast my vote for him when he runs for office again. That's a promise.

 

[prechilill]

Report coming in, injunction against USAPA granted. 🙂 More to follow...

 

[fodase]

Hey Clowns, your ability to apply pressure on the company just got taken away, nice job scabs.

 

[Move2CLT]

These "new developments" wouldn't have anything to do with the way Parker handles bad news does it? We thought you guys had the CIRP handy for him seeing the bunker LOA party got the lights shut off?

Nope. It's about the injunction. How are you handling the bad news? Call the CIRP yet luv?

 

[Move2CLT]

relax,,, a couple of reps wanted to take a stand and make a ponit as they could with the late email of the conference call.
nothing will hurt .... agenda items added to the meeting on the 4th at 0800 AM.... no big deal.

if they want to play.....

So who is lying here crazy? Cleary or the reps? Was the email timely or not?

Sounds like things are turning against Cleary.

 

[Move2CLT]

Hate, you are correct. Parker will be rocked incrementally back by successive wins on the East Front. He is waiting news from the lines on the Kasher War. This will be the first move of the trenches forward and the East Pilots will advance. Then Judge Silver will already affirm what the 9th said. She has absolutely no other choice or the 9th will straighten her right out. The next victory will be in the South, where the judge will not give Tempe the injunction. Then we move on the company for harassing a labor organization for no reason other than selective harassment. Cleary will soon be recognized as General Grant was in 1863. Emerging from the specter of war, in victory. The tide is very surely shifting towards the East Pilots. Any division such as that being shown in certain councils, will not be tolerated, as we move even more forward with the successive victories. Then the final moves will be to bring the 190 F/O group up in pay, and then get the West Pilots their pay raises from Parker. This shows anyone the East pilots have always been fair in seeking the West their pay, in spite of the DAMAGE they inflicted in their poorly advised actions...............

Successive wins?

How does the injunction fit in to your plan Swan?

I can't stop laughing.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

A couple of other variables would need to be considered.
Underpants

I've got an even better one for you. Under the east system, if there's one vacancy and the bottom active pilot is awarded that vacancy, in theory every active east pilot could move to a new position. So in theory one vacancy bidder could trigger 1500-2000 training events (obviously some movement would be only base changes on same seat/equipment).

So why don't we go with that? Hire 40 per week to cover the training float...

Seriously, though, there's so much wrong with your theory that there's just no use trying to explain it all. Get back to me when you've had 16 years experience doing it. Believe me or not, it really doesn't matter since I'm not the one that'll be disappointed when my expectations aren't met.

Jim

 

[TBONEJ4J]

Seriously, though, there's so much wrong with your theory that there's just no use trying to explain it all. Get back to me when you've had 16 years experience doing it. Believe me or not, it really doesn't matter since I'm not the one that'll be disappointed when my expectations aren't met.

Jim

Wow. That's just plain arrogant.

Time to call it quits. You should fully retire.

The USAir you knew is not what it is today and the FARs which may be in place in the next few months have never been considered in a bid. In the new paradigm your 16 years experience will be of no value.

 

[cleardirect]

Hate, you are correct. Parker will be rocked incrementally back by successive wins on the East Front. He is waiting news from the lines on the Kasher War. This will be the first move of the trenches forward and the East Pilots will advance. Then Judge Silver will already affirm what the 9th said. She has absolutely no other choice or the 9th will straighten her right out. The next victory will be in the South, where the judge will not give Tempe the injunction. Then we move on the company for harassing a labor organization for no reason other than selective harassment. Cleary will soon be recognized as General Grant was in 1863. Emerging from the specter of war, in victory. The tide is very surely shifting towards the East Pilots. Any division such as that being shown in certain councils, will not be tolerated, as we move even more forward with the successive victories. Then the final moves will be to bring the 190 F/O group up in pay, and then get the West Pilots their pay raises from Parker. This shows anyone the East pilots have always been fair in seeking the West their pay, in spite of the DAMAGE they inflicted in their poorly advised actions...............

Missed that one by a bunch.

Better read that injunction. "Any division such as that being shown in certain councils, will not be tolerated" threats and intimidation are a no-no now. Going to have to change the way you do business.

What the ninth said was the Addington was not ripe. The DJ is not the Addington. She has already decided that it is ripe. Looks like you missed another one.