US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Code Name V]

Ah, up to #4 that can't admit that there's an elephant in the room. How predictable is that?

Jim

will you please go away. I'm really tired of having to scroll past your worthless, unwanted bs. get a job or find something productive to do. you are setting a bad example for productive retirees.

v

 

[crazystnic]

the west's gloating over the injunction.
their gloating over our LOA 93 is kind of ironic don't you think?

they are part of this Union like it or not.....

 

[Pi brat]

the west's gloating over the injunction.
their gloating over our LOAii 93 is kind of ironic don't you think?

they are part of this Union like it or not.....

The smart ones aren't gloating, we just here from few of them on here.

 

[Code Name V]

V, I've got to disagree with you. This DOES mean something and it is a big hammer. No matter what happened this summer the company was able to convince a federal judge that USAPA and it's pilots participated in an illegal job action. We have an injunction in place to stop it. If the company's numbers turn south again(funny, they have been improving even before yesterday) the company will most likely will go back to the judge asking for damages. Damages that this union cannot afford after spending all our dues on lawyers already.

This is not the battleground to be on because we will die here. It's time for our leadership to be honest with it's pilots. Fighting the Nic and trying to get a contract are mutually exclusive. When we went down the road we did, it put a contract out of reach until THAT fight is over. Period.

I don't like the injunction. I don't like how it is worded and I think it can be damaging for ALL pilots and if we ever bend an airplane again, it might come back to haunt the company. Nothing I can do about it.

No doubt, it is not a good thing for us. I am curious to see how our request for relief will come out and if it is positive and contradict each other, which will prevail? there was a very good reason that the company filed this injunction in NC. it really improved the odds for them. as far as if/when we bend an aircraft, I think the judge is putting his neck out and no doubt had to consider this. I also would like to see him come out and say 'precisely' what he expects. the reality is that it is hard to stop a wild cat grassroots effort which is what we are seeing. this is not usapa sanctioned. never has been, which is why I don't see this action making any difference at all in behavior. usapa can't stop it any more than the west can. there may be some short term improvement if people lose heart but it will deteriorate again. all they have to do is continue down the failed route that they have selected. there is no upside to their course of discontent.

V

 

[icehead]

swans assumptions were as valid as anyone's. just goes to show that as with any legal case, you can't count your chickens. personally, I am interested in how the judge expects compliance? min taxi speeds are in the aim and max are in the fom. how about write up? whos job is it to determine 'minor' vs. 'major' discrepancies? do you call the chief pilot every time you have a write up and if an item is known and not written up, is it not an faa violation? how about altitudes/fuel burns? at what point are you willing to have the company or a judge determine how to fly the aircraft? My expectation is that you will see even less single engine taxi, more write ups, higher fuel burns and even lower on time stats because the opinion is just to vague. this is a no win situation for the company, however i can see how they will try to leverage it to their advantage and the west will improperly look at it as a win for themselves because anything that is anti usapa is pro west in their minds; regardless if they cut off their nose in the process.

I hope that usapa does not even try to second guess and interpret. if the judge expects compliance but is too vague to put it in writing then just copy and paste the document and leave it at that.

V

Good post...The law of unintended consequences usually rear's it's head.

 

[luvthe9]

The smart ones aren't gloating, we just here from few of them on here.

Because they know whats going to happen on LOA93 very soon.

 

[Move2CLT]

will you please go away. I'm really tired of having to scroll past your worthless, unwanted bs. get a job or find something productive to do. you are setting a bad example for productive retirees.

v

I was going to tell you the same thing. Wow.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Ah, up to #4 that can't admit that there's an elephant in the room. How predictable is that?

Jim

The last cancel I had was due to an airworthy exterior item. We called maint. to get a second opinion (prior to writing it up). Told him what we saw and asked for him to see what he thought. While nothing was in the log book he said "Nah it is probably good to go, hard to see without getting on a ladder and checking up close" So asked him to take a closer look and if he said it was good to go we would go. He did not like that idea but went off to find a ladder. 10 mins later he came back with log in hand that HE had written up. A/C was grounded, and after an hour of working on it it cancelled.

Now with injunction in hand, what do you suppose the same scenario will be next week? I don't know how draconian the company is going to take it. That is why I wrote the earlier post. In the above scenario the mech. was fine with us flying it as long as he didn't have to put his name on the line saying that. Once it was laid on his shoulders he grounded it. Not a ding on the maint people, They do a great job but they will tell you they are under lots of pressure to keep the metal moving also.

I have zero problem flying an a/c that maint says is good to go. What I won't do is fly one that appears illegal unless somebody puts in writing that despite appearances it is good to go.

The Capt. on the Telaviv flight made sure he had it in writing that he was legal to go. That appears to have saved him from a violation, but not the company apparantly.

Now if we continue on business as usual and don't get pressured to fly stuff that should not be flown and they concentrate on the few guys writing up things like o2 levels at last minute or sitting 10 minutes with nothing going on, I have no problem with that. I will keep records on any and all faults and delays in detail though in case I ever get called for one of those fact finding meetings we keep hearing about.

 

[Black Swan]

V, I've got to disagree with you. This DOES mean something and it is a big hammer. No matter what happened this summer the company was able to convince a federal judge that USAPA and it's pilots participated in an illegal job action. We have an injunction in place to stop it. If the company's numbers turn south again(funny, they have been improving even before yesterday) the company will most likely will go back to the judge asking for damages. Damages that this union cannot afford after spending all our dues on lawyers already.

This is not the battleground to be on because we will die here. It's time for our leadership to be honest with it's pilots. Fighting the Nic and trying to get a contract are mutually exclusive. When we went down the road we did, it put a contract out of reach until THAT fight is over. Period.

I don't like the injunction. I don't like how it is worded and I think it can be damaging for ALL pilots and if we ever bend an airplane again, it might come back to haunt the company. Nothing I can do about it.

An injunction is just the way of doing business for airline execs these days. USAir, American, Delta, United. All pilot groups under injunction. More a sad commentary of how most every airline excepting SWA knows how to work with employees, not against them. It is no big deal at all. More a sad commentary on the entire industry. Worldwide....

strike cancelled after airline wins high court injunction
British Airways staves off planned 20 days of action by cabin crew after Unite union's strike ballot is ruled invalid


reddit this
Comments (226)
Helen Pidd and Dan Milmo
guardian.co.uk, Monday 17 May 2010 13.16 EDT
Article history

 

[luvthe9]

My favorite part of the injunction...........To the extent
that USAPA is concerned that an injunction would hamper its legitimate safety efforts, this
Court declares that it in no way intends to interfere with the duty of pilots in command to ensure
the safety of their passengers and equipment.

 

[Black Swan]

My favorite part of the injunction...........To the extent
that USAPA is concerned that an injunction would hamper its legitimate safety efforts, this
Court declares that it in no way intends to interfere with the duty of pilots in command to ensure
the safety of their passengers and equipment.

No, the court does not want to interfere, they know our management is more than up to the task.

 

[fodase]

Funny, usapa's president wants some metal bent (hoped for it in his own update) so he can show the company is unsafe, now the scab clowns are on here literally wishing for the same thing. Another thing I find funny is the usual "winning" press releases from scab theur have gone missing as it relates to the injunction so the scab clowns have picked up on it and are here telling all of us that the injunction is "no big deal" comical. I can't wait for the loa 93 decision to be announced just so I can enjoy the scab clowns twisting of how that loss is really a win. Idiots.

 

[CallawayGolf]

No doubt, it is not a good thing for us. I am curious to see how our request for relief will come out and if it is positive and contradict each other, which will prevail? there was a very good reason that the company filed this injunction in NC. it really improved the odds for them. as far as if/when we bend an aircraft, I think the judge is putting his neck out and no doubt had to consider this. I also would like to see him come out and say 'precisely' what he expects. the reality is that it is hard to stop a wild cat grassroots effort which is what we are seeing. this is not usapa sanctioned. never has been, which is why I don't see this action making any difference at all in behavior. usapa can't stop it any more than the west can. there may be some short term improvement if people lose heart but it will deteriorate again. all they have to do is continue down the failed route that they have selected. there is no upside to their course of discontent.

V

The upside is when the terminations begin for those who don't believe the courts or Management can actually single them out in the sea of statistical data. The malcontents who have caused the slowdown and the resulting injunction now have a choice to either fall in line and forget about trying to get the DOH cramdown contract or to continue their illegal conduct and terminate their careers.

 

[Move2CLT]

Termination has already begun. Two went down today.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Now with injunction in hand, what do you suppose the same scenario will be next week?

The injunction shouldn't make any difference if you do the job you were trained to do. Much is being made of the judges inclusion of "all maintenance items" but read that carefully. The problem from the start was some pilots thinking that they could play games with impunity when nothing could be further from the truth. The company can easily tell who's writing up unnessary items and who isn't or who's waiting to call maintenance till just before departure to cause a delay To paraphrase what I've said before, if you're confident that you're doing the right thing for the right reasons, you should not feel uncomfortable being called to the CP's office to explain it.

Jim