US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Hallelujah...the blind man sees...

Nice to see you finally admit the obvious after all this time.

Jim

I'm going to keep this short........bite me. Solvent at the time of the merger didn't guarantee they would be a year latter. Parker saved them their money.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'll pass - an allergy to idiocy thing...

Jim

 

[BLT]

I'm going to keep this short........bite me. Solvent at the time of the merger didn't guarantee they would be a year latter. Parker saved them their money.

Airline A: 2nd bankruptcy, insolvent, days away from non-existence. Thousands of furloughs. Compensation = lowest in the industry, terrible work rules.
Airline B: Solvent. Growing. Profitable. No fuloughs. Compensation = not the highest and not the lowest, great work rules.

Where would you rather work? Makes it easier when you remove the names, huh?

 

[Move2CLT]

Pretty amazing how these easties think bankruptcy meant liquidation for us. Even if we did enter bankruptcy we would have been around for years to come. How long did you guys flounder in C11?

The only guarantee was that you were goners.

We were far from it.

 

[nic4us]

That's a big stretch Nic. Market cap doesn't buy anything. It might help you borrow more money to buy something, but it is not cash. Go to Boeing and say "Hey, my market cap(today) is 3 billion, give me 10 777s" and see what they say.

"What Does Market Capitalization Mean?
The total dollar market value of all of a company's outstanding shares. Market capitalization is calculated by multiplying a company's shares outstanding by the current market price of one share. The investment community uses this figure to determining a company's size, as opposed to sales or total asset figures."


The AWA stockholders were not investors in the merger, they were investors in AWA that allowed their previous investment to be rolled over into the new company. The AWA stockholders money most like had already been spent as AWA had an ATSB loan and Parker and Kirby said you guys were going to face a cash crunch. Heck, even you merger committee did. From the Nic:

"The America West Representatives concede that the scheduled
repayments of the Company's ATSB loan created potential liquidity
problems for the airline."

The AWA stockholders received stock in the new company because they owned stock in AWA when the merger happened and AWA was solvent. Like AWA pilot, the merger worked out well for them.

Additional cash had to be raised to do the merger and it came from outside sources.

You guys throw this "saved you" stuff around as if we should kiss the ground you walk on. YOU didn't have anything to do with the merger, as you have said you didn't want it. Parker didn't do it our of the goodness of his heart, he did it because he thought it was in the best financial interest of AWA, and it looks like he was right. The company I worked for brought a lot to the merger, more than AWA it seems to me, but both companies needed it.

The bolded sentence makes no sense.

The AWA stockholders took a vote. Decided to let the merger take place. So I guess you could say what you said with a straight face, but then, if they were not investors, how did they end up with the single greatest share of the new company?

Had the AWA stockholders said no, the deal would not have happened. I can't remeber the numbers but it was like 1.2 billion was needed to do this deal. All the investors lined up, put down the 1.2 bill, and got 60% of the new company. That means the AWA stockholders bought the other 40%, or the equivelent of $800 million.


Not quite the same but lets use breeze's analogy. I buy a house for 100k, live in it for 10 years and it is now worth 250k. During the same time, you buy a house for 1 million, live in it for the same 10 years, and the neigborhood goes to hell, you lose your job, quit making payments, declare bankruptcy and the bank repos the house. The bank is willing to sell me your house for 500k, so I sell my house, take out the 150k equity, roll that into the new house, and take out a loan with the bank for the 350k difference.

The bottom line question is twofold. Who "owns" the house, and who "bought" the house?

The answere is obvious to everyone. I own the house (but I owe the bank), I bought the house (but I owe the bank). I did not have the 500k cash to "buy" the house, but I did have 150k equity to roll over, and I was not bankrupt, so I could be reasonabley expected to service the 350k loan, especially since my gardner and my butler work for next to nothing maintaining the house.

 

[Move2CLT]

You need to take a deep breath and calm down... I don't have you pegged for anything except an over the top poster... I don't track the number of your insane posts, nor do I care what you have to say. Like I said... no one cares what you have to say nor who you really are or are not, as you add nothing constructive to any discussion.

Slow down there sport. You obviously care what I have to post because you keep reading and responding to me.

It's OK to be a fan.

 

[Move2CLT]

Pi, the substance and quality of your posts seems to be degarding lately. Everything OK? Are you going to be able to handle an LOA93 loss?

 

[Move2CLT]

I'm going to keep this short........bite me. Solvent at the time of the merger didn't guarantee they would be a year latter. Parker saved them their money.

Damn what a reach. Too pathetic too be funny. You easties are getting sadder by the minute. 🙁

 

[BoeingBoy]

Added some I see...

Solvent at the time of the merger didn't guarantee they would be a year latter. Parker saved them their money.

Let me use Pieisms: They weren't insolvent a year later were they? What date would AWH have become insolvent?

You can resist the truth, but you can't change it - trying only makes you look foolish. Which is better off - an insolvent company or a solvent company? Which is better off - a company in it's second BK in three years or a company that MAY file for bankruptcy down the road somewhere? Which is better off - a company spending money faster than it comes in or one that's holding it's own?

Jim

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Ya, good one. Now I have to block you. Especially because you can't handle quote tags.

I don't give a flying fig what you do. You joined in August and now have over 1100 posts?
You are here more than not. How much does Leonidas pay you? Block away, blockhead. 😛

 

[Pi brat]

Airline A: 2nd bankruptcy, insolvent, days away from non-existence. Thousands of furloughs. Compensation = lowest in the industry, terrible work rules.
Airline B: Solvent. Growing. Profitable. No fuloughs. Compensation = not the highest and not the lowest, great work rules.

Where would you rather work? Makes it easier when you remove the names, huh?

What airline was B? If you are talking about AWA, I guess you are technically correct, the profitable would depend on when and for how long, but you were not looking forward. Do me a favor. Go watch the crew news that has "who saved whom", I believe it is the CLT F/A one. Then read this:http://www.getfilings.com/o0000950153-05-000517.html. After that, get back to me.

But while we wait, let me share a true story with you. I believe it was in late 2004. Things were looking a little bleak for good old US, so I was getting my resume together, cleaning up the logbook, looking at other job opportunities, etc. I was flying with a friend and he said that his brother in law was XXXXX at AWA and he could probably get me in the door if I wanted. I said "Thanks, but I'm not that desperate yet". Now don't get mad, it wasn't meant to be a slam, just where I was in life. 18 years at US, based close to home and my family, if US made it and nobody merged in front of me I would be number 1, and we had big airplanes flying to Europe which I had done and enjoyed. To leave and go to AWA I would have had to resign, go to the bottom of the list, it would take years with their moderately better contract to even get back to what I was making and I would either have to move my family to Sodom and Gomorrah, or Hell(I really don't like LAS or PHX. Sedona, Prescott or Flagstaff might be nice). So, I didn't take him up on his offer, but a guy just a little junior to me did leave US and go to AWA. He is now furloughed(I think he is still out) and I'm an Airbus captain. I think I was right to rather work for Airline A. You did mean US Airways, right? ;-)

 

[Pi brat]

Pretty amazing how these easties think bankruptcy meant liquidation for us. Even if we did enter bankruptcy we would have been around for years to come. How long did you guys flounder in C11?

The only guarantee was that you were goners.

We were far from it.

What was the date that the "guaranteed goners" happened. You can Google words if you don't know what the mean.

 

[Pi brat]

The bolded sentence makes no sense.

The AWA stockholders took a vote. Decided to let the merger take place. So I guess you could say what you said with a straight face, but then, if they were not investors, how did they end up with the single greatest share of the new company?

Had the AWA stockholders said no, the deal would not have happened. I can't remeber the numbers but it was like 1.2 billion was needed to do this deal. All the investors lined up, put down the 1.2 bill, and got 60% of the new company. That means the AWA stockholders bought the other 40%, or the equivelent of $800 million.


Not quite the same but lets use breeze's analogy. I buy a house for 100k, live in it for 10 years and it is now worth 250k. During the same time, you buy a house for 1 million, live in it for the same 10 years, and the neigborhood goes to hell, you lose your job, quit making payments, declare bankruptcy and the bank repos the house. The bank is willing to sell me your house for 500k, so I sell my house, take out the 150k equity, roll that into the new house, and take out a loan with the bank for the 350k difference.

The bottom line question is twofold. Who "owns" the house, and who "bought" the house?

The answere is obvious to everyone. I own the house (but I owe the bank), I bought the house (but I owe the bank). I did not have the 500k cash to "buy" the house, but I did have 150k equity to roll over, and I was not bankrupt, so I could be reasonabley expected to service the 350k loan, especially since my gardner and my butler work for next to nothing maintaining the house.

It was very clear, if you want to see it.

You analogy doesn't work with AWA. It didn't have the "home equity" on it's own to go borrow the money to do what the merger did. Parker has said that, not me. The money guys wouldn't have loaned you the money to go out an buy a bunch of airplanes, open a hub in CLT and PHL, or probably even buy US's assets had we shutdown. They did see that the AWA, when combined with US would work and it was worth the gamble.

 

[Move2CLT]

I don't give a flying fig what you do. You joined in August and now have over 1100 posts?
You are here more than not. How much does Leonidas pay you? Block away, blockhead. 😛

Relax UU, I was just kidding about blocking you. I was actually mocking breeze when I wrote that but obviously that way over your head. And Leonidas doesn't pay anyone anything. Its all volunteer work.

I love the way you easties have a hard on for my post numbers. You seem very threatened by it to the point where you have to chase shadows to explain away my highly knowledgeable posts. Just relax boo boo, there will be no blocking here.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi, the substance and quality of your posts seems to be degarding lately. Everything OK? Are you going to be able to handle an LOA93 loss?

Degarding? Damn, I hate it when that happens, I will try to be more attentive. ;-)

Thanks for the concern, but I will be fine. I've counted on a complete loss, so anything will be gravy.