US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cactusboy53]

Did I say "boy"? I wanted to say "Roy"and you will wait 'til 2023 to get the nic. Night night.

All that time making $123 an hour for NB Captain pay? What a shinning example you kids will be to the industry. RJ Captains will be making $200 an hour by the time 2023 rolls around. You USAPA guys are AWESOME!!

 

[mikey60]

All that time making $123 an hour for NB Captain pay? What a shinning example you kids will be to the industry. RJ Captains will be making $200 an hour by the time 2023 rolls around. You USAPA guys are AWESOME!!

You forgot LOA93. I'll be gone and you will be a on some forum with the Avatar "Mesa Man".



P.S. my paypal account......

 

[Move2CLT]

Yes but look at the crapola thats on your side.

Said the guy that's actually standing in crapola.

 

[luvn737s]

Yes but look at the crapola thats on your side.

Yeah, my extra vacation and higher pay and better work rules. Who'd want any of that?

Actually my union is duty bound to work for even greater improvements in my contract and I will use whatever means necessary to compel them to abide by their responsibility.

Sorry if that denies you your smug satisfaction of your illegitimate land grab.

Well not really sorry, of course...

 

[Move2CLT]

Check out my new signature.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Compass Correction Update (Romance at USAPA Headquarters): October 25, 2011

A Compass Correction

Romance at USAPA Headquarters

Leadership at USAPA

Introduction

In a previous Compass Correction, entitled DECISIONS, DECISIONS, our readers were informed that Mike Cleary had fired USAPA’s General Counsel, Lee Seham. We received many e-mails asking why and how this decision might affect our pilot group going forward. The coalition has been trying to get this information for you, but our union leadership has been not very responsive to our requests. So, we will share with you what we do know.

Background

When the founders of USAPA hired Lee Seham as their attorney, they were confident, after exhaustive research, that they had hired one of the country’s eminent lawyers and labor law firms. Lee Seham came on board, and he immediately understood the struggles a new union would have to overcome.

One of those struggles was destined to be startup finances. To his credit, Lee agreed to work for half pay – that’s right – half pay! If we won the election – then we would pay him the rest with the new dues money coming in. Lee Seham, true to his word, did this and when our new union had a lawsuit (Addington) and dues Boycott (the west pilots) Lee Seham put us on a payment plan and worked with our new union for his legal fees. Let’s be perfectly clear – we have received excellent legal advice – and our attorney had us on a manageable payment plan. Try that with most legal firms today!

Lee Seham never let us down!

As USAPA matured, we were faced with the Addington Lawsuit. Addington was a direct assault on the DOH provisions of the union’s Constitution and By-Laws. Lee Seham gave great legal advice and defended our union, in court, before Judge Wake in PHX. Lee’s legal strategy set the stage to take that ruling to another, more labor friendly court, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in SFO where he argued and won a published decision for USAPA. This win – which the Supreme Court decided not to hear – was a big win for USAPA.

Lee Seham has done everything he has told USAPA he would do. He has provided excellent counsel for our union. His hourly rate has been 250 bucks an hour. He stays at the crew hotels, with the BPR, and his expenses are in line with USAPA UOM guidelines.

“I first met Lee in the summer of 2007 as USAPA was being formed. I have had a great deal of contact with him and believe that his integrity and honesty are beyond reproach. He is a true believer in his work and if you have had an opportunity to listen to him speak you know that he is dedicated to his craft, the law, and to supporting his client.” Steve Bradford – first USAPA President

Every USAPA pilot owes Lee Seham and his firm their thanks.

Present day

President Mike Cleary has Fired Lee Seham (as General Counsel) -Fired! Terminated!

Here at the Compass Correction we were very surprised. We decided to do some research and determine why the President of USAPA, without BPR approval, decided to fire Lee Seham as our General Counsel.

The Girlfriend

Lee Seham had an attorney working in his firm that had been doing legal work for USAPA. This female attorney started dating the USAPA VP – Randy Mowrey. One of his clients, an Officer of a labor union, was dating one of his staff members who was closely involved in legal work for the client – the labor union -- a big problem!

(A new law firm for USAPA, O’Dwyer and Bernstien, have said it is not a problem…Even though they are lawyers and they are not directly involved, they do not know the entire history and they do not know all the details. It is a real problem for another firm to say there is no ethical problem when the principles of the firm involved say there is. We believe that it is not a call for outsiders to make.)

The Seham attorney who is romantically involved with USAPA VP Randy Mowrey has stopped working for Lee Seham. The details of her separation from the law firm Seham, Seham, Meltz, and Petersen are not known as they are covered under confidentiality and non-disclosure agreements.

There are many rumors out on the line, and good information has been hard to come by. The situation brings up more questions than answers, but we have been able to learn several things.
1.At an earlier BPR meeting, Randy Mowrey read a statement that stated the ongoing relationship between USAPA and Lee Seham’s firm was dependent on how Lee Seham treated his former staff attorney, who is now romantically involved with USAPA VP Mowrey.
2.Mike Cleary and Randy Mowrey were upset with Lee Seham when the BPR sought his legal advice over the alleged altercation between Randy Mowrey and Sec/Treas Rob Streble.
3.Mike Cleary did not consult with Lee Seham prior to filing the NY lawsuit against US Airways for status quo violations this past May 2011. Mike was not happy when Lee advised against the NY lawsuit and that it undercuts USAPA’s interests.
4.We also believe that Lee Seham advised USAPA the union was exposed to the preliminary injunction that was just decided by Judge Conrad in NC. We understand that Seham’s law firm was not consulted in the unsuccessful defense of this injunction action.
We can all read into what has happened.

The “romantic relationship” has become more important, than “keeping” one of the best Railway Labor Act attorneys in the country –an obvious conflict of interest! The ego of Mike Cleary and his controlling nature have both been threatened when Legal has advised against his legal strategy. We all know that Mike Cleary, and only Mike Cleary (in his own mind), knows best.

Mike Cleary and Randy Mowrey know the pilots will not sit still and watch Lee Seham get fired over a girlfriend and legal advice that Mike doesn’t like. So they have to “cook up” a valid reason. And that is why we are hearing that Lee Seham was terminated for overbilling.

Bottom Line

1. Cleary fired Lee Seham without BPR approval – no debate – no research - no vote – no resolution.
2. Cleary has hired replacement legal counsel at 400 bucks an hour!
3. The actions by Cleary (and Mowrey) have placed this union in legal jeopardy – our ongoing legal cases (worked by Seham) are now in danger of losing the original legal architect – such as our seniority dispute with the west and the declaratory judgement filed by US Airways.

The slanderous accusations of overbilling – made by Cleary and Mowrey – have exposed this union to a lawsuit.

There has been no proof provided to the pilots – not from Cleary, not from Mowrey, not from any union Officer or BPR member – THERE HAS BEEN NO PROOF of overbilling by Seham. NONE!
In fact, the PHL Chairman has refused to answer questions regarding this matter in writing – what does he have to hide?

So, what is this really all about?

It’s about sex. It’s about egos! It’s about using their union office to protect their personal life and personal agendas, even if it costs the union membership a lot of money. But, that is not their concern – it’s not their money.

Pilots – and USAPA members – it’s time to start paying attention. The USAPA ship is sinking fast and these leaders will take you down with them – Count on it.

Jed Thomas
Eric Rowe
Woody Menear

 

[Res Judicata]

Compass Correction Update (Romance at USAPA Headquarters): October 25, 2011

A Compass Correction

Romance at USAPA Headquarters

Leadership at USAPA

Introduction.....

Again, can there be any communications from the East side that isn't hyper-inflated, dramatic B.S. FILLED with exclamation points?

This mess couldn't happen to a nicer bunch a D-bags. BTW, "not ripe" isn't a huge win for USAPA, it's an anchor around it's neck. The dissenting opinion and the stunning lack of progress over the last several years should kind of indicate that.

 

[Move2CLT]

Correct.

I don't know how winning on a technicality is considered a huge win. If it was huge, USAPA would have had a new list passed across the table and wouldn't be looking for the IBT for help.

 

[aquagreen73s]

This mess couldn't happen to a nicer bunch a D-bags. BTW, "not ripe" isn't a huge win for USAPA, it's an anchor around it's neck. The dissenting opinion and the stunning lack of progress over the last several years should kind of indicate that.

They're starting to understand the game theory model applicable to the East-West situation. One corner is strict DOH and the other is pure Nicolau. In between was...well, the in-between which Jack Stephan so desperately wanted to be the East objective which was a watered down Nicolau. Logically, that made a lot of sense for the East. Emotionally, the DOH corner was the only possibility. Where's Jack Stephan now? $eham sold his product on based solely on emotion and in the process sheared the East out of $10,000,000 along with any way out of LOA93 or the Nicolau. Now it's one or the other: LOA93 or the Nic.

 

[nic4us]

Correct.

I don't know how winning on a technicality is considered a huge win. If it was huge, USAPA would have had a new list passed across the table and wouldn't be looking for the IBT for help.

It was a HUGE win for many reasons.

First, getting Addington dismissed avoided the second half of a bifurcated trial, in which we were going to return to Wake to decide the second half, how much damages in dollars. This alone makes it HUGE for a scab union running low on dollars, and unable to pay their lawyer they just fired.

Second, by delaying justice, you deny the West justice. The usapa supporters get to continue their Failure of DFR toward the West and run the union soley for the benefit of advancing east, with impunity, until ratification of a joint contract? What kind of bullshit is that? I will answere my own question. It is the kind of bullshit that allows a rogue union to violate the law, screw with the company and fail in their duties, as long as they never ratify said joint contract. Gee, I wonder why, in Kirby's word, "usapa is incapable of delivering a joint contract"? It is because they do not want a JCBA. That is the DFR. Wake and Bybee understood this, Graber and Tashima hoped a warning would change usapa's ways, and then they could avoid making a precedent setting appeals court ruling that might muddy the waters in future non-similar cases.

Finally, it was a HUGE win, because it kept their base of zealots energized. Just look at how usapa spokesperson James (I scabbed Continental to cost them money) Ray talked to media during info picketing. When asked by the reporter, "but isn't the delay in a JCBA caused by a bigger seniority issue", Ray responds with some bullshit about how that had already been settled by the Supreme Court ruling usapa was free to advance whatever seniority list it pleased. These morons think they got a green light from the SCOTUS, and can force their will upon the company and the West.


You are correct though, in that their HUGE win, is not a win that will allow them to avoid the Nic, and eventually will bring down their permanent seperate ops DFR scheme. The proof being the immediate need it caused for the company to file the DJ.

Res Judica is also correct, in that the HUGE win is an anchor around their neck. The 9ths "not ripe" ruling and their warning to usapa will be the first thing the West lawyers quote in any future litigation.

 

[Phoenix]

It was a HUGE win for many reasons.

First, getting Addington dismissed avoided the second half of a bifurcated trial, in which we were going to return to Wake to decide the second half, how much damages in dollars. This alone makes it HUGE for a scab union running low on dollars, and unable to pay their lawyer they just fired.

Second, by delaying justice, you deny the West justice. The usapa supporters get to continue their Failure of DFR toward the West and run the union soley for the benefit of advancing east, with impunity, until ratification of a joint contract? What kind of bullshit is that? I will answere my own question. It is the kind of bullshit that allows a rogue union to violate the law, screw with the company and fail in their duties, as long as they never ratify said joint contract. Gee, I wonder why, in Kirby's word, "usapa is incapable of delivering a joint contract"? It is because they do not want a JCBA. That is the DFR. Wake and Bybee understood this, Graber and Tashima hoped a warning would change usapa's ways, and then they could avoid making a precedent setting appeals court ruling that might muddy the waters in future non-similar cases.

Finally, it was a HUGE win, because it kept their base of zealots energized. Just look at how usapa spokesperson James (I scabbed Continental to cost them money) Ray talked to media during info picketing. When asked by the reporter, "but isn't the delay in a JCBA caused by a bigger seniority issue", Ray responds with some bullshit about how that had already been settled by the Supreme Court ruling usapa was free to advance whatever seniority list it pleased. These morons think they got a green light from the SCOTUS, and can force their will upon the company and the West.


You are correct though, in that their HUGE win, is not a win that will allow them to avoid the Nic, and eventually will bring down their permanent seperate ops DFR scheme. The proof being the immediate need it caused for the company to file the DJ.

Res Judica is also correct, in that the HUGE win is an anchor around their neck. The 9ths "not ripe" ruling and their warning to usapa will be the first thing the West lawyers quote in any future litigation.

Brevity or passion... You gotta pick one or the other!

 

[aquagreen73s]

They can't win. Far and away their best outcome would have been pushing for a watered down Nic which is exactly what the power that be wanted at the time: Stephan, Prater, Rice, et. al. What's absolutely stunning is that the herd followed King, Theuer, Bradford down the all-or-nothing path, supremely confident that it would be all for the East and nothing for the West. The problem right from the get-go was that none of the masterminds on the East were that bright, plus they were further handicapped by emotion. They fell right into the trap of a snake-oil salesman who did nothing but take the East situation and eliminate all options down to one: DOH or nothing. Well, guess what . . . $10,000,000 later, how's that grand $eham strategy working out?

 

[Res Judicata]

They can't win. Far and away their best outcome would have been pushing for a watered down Nic which is exactly what the power that be wanted at the time: Stephan, Prater, Rice, et. al. What's absolutely stunning is that the herd followed King, Theuer, Bradford down the all-or-nothing path, supremely confident that it would be all for the East and nothing for the West. The problem right from the get-go was that none of the masterminds on the East were that bright, plus they were further handicapped by emotion. They fell right into the trap of a snake-oil salesman who did nothing but take the East situation and eliminate all options down to one: DOH or nothing. Well, guess what . . . $10,000,000 later, how's that grand $eham strategy working out?

10mill is a drop in the bucket compared to lost pay and improved work rules. The East is truly their own worst enemies...look how incredibly dysfunctional an Eastie only union is operating. I knew usapa was going to be a huge failure but these maniacs simply cannot contain their lunacy long enough to accomplish ANYTHING. It just keeps getting worse and worse. Moreover, like schitzo nut jobs instead of attempting to improve anything they simply keep doubling down and cranking up the rhetoric and legal bills. I'm beginning to think calling them IDIOTS all these years is unduly offensive to true idiots.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Spot on Res. I'll only add that I see no way anything constructive or productive will come from the AAA-AWA merger. The best course is to just wait this out another five or ten years, until enough on the East retire and we bring in fresh faces. Either that or a merger; the highly concentrated dysfunction on the East has to be diluted as there's no other way to deal with it. Reasoning obviously doesn't work and has never worked over there.

 

[nic4us]

Brevity or passion... You gotta pick one or the other!

usapa=scabs

Pretty terse summation.

How is that for both Brevity and Passion?