US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

C'mon V.....you know the guy has the mental capacity of a 12 yr old....cut him some slack.
breeze

12 year olds? You're not obsessed with underaged kids like you PHL buddy, are you?

 

[prechilill]

Interesting, as under ALPO, it seems there were a many of give backs (even prior to 9/11) which the company costed at X amount when in fact is was XX amount. But alpo grabbed at it. Or the costing of another arbitration, with 330 flying or something, with the company saying Oh we would have just deployed it on trips w/o a IRO. Uhmmm...since when has the company done that. etc etc........ Seems the NAC is just taking the companies lead on how to cost numbers...

So, refresh my memory... Who were the actual carbon life forms representing this 'ALPO" transgression in your sorrowful comments above? Was it a collection of UAL pilots? Delta with maybe an AWA pilot thrown in the mix....

Pray tell the enabler of this sinister plot you talk of.

 

[luvn737s]

luvn...and I mean this with the utmost sincerity, but after six years of being associated with the East all I can say is that what you propose is pie in the sky.

I disagree. The west was too lazy to engage the east person-to-person and present a viable alternative to the emotion post NIC. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Now the tide has turned against USAPA, but the west continues to sit on the sidelines and donate to feed a legal machine that still won't produce the NIC award in a contract.

The west pilots need to reach out and provide a viable alternative to USAPA for the east to get behind.

Waiting is a strategy only if you know what you're waiting for. The time has come for action.

 

[SparrowHawk]

A few observations if I may.

I think I finally get the East or USAPA strategy. It's very similar to the "Scorched Earth" strategy used by the Russians when Germany invaded. USAPA has sued everything but the potted plants in the US Airways Lobby, not so much in hope of victory but in hopes of frustrating the other side into capitulation.

If you look at the West as Germany and East as Russia, it kind of plays out (To Date) in a similar way. Army of Leonidas overruns USAPA in court. Result? More court actions, Kasher looks like a loser for USAPA and where are the pilots? no place close to a list or a contract. It occurred to me that USAPA can lose every single court case and still deny the implementation if the Nic Award for years to come.

So here everyone is. Dug in like the troops in a Russian winter waiting for an opportunity to make a decisive move. This is all about the senior folks on the e East getting to retirement age with all of the perks of their considerable seniority. Another 5 years of delay, which is entirely possible and then? Then it won't matter and a list will be generated and approved and maybe a few dollars in raises. Kind of a sleazy move but an effective one to date.

 

[prechilill]

I disagree. The west was too lazy to engage the east person-to-person and present a viable alternative to the emotion post NIC. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Now the tide has turned against USAPA, but the west continues to sit on the sidelines and donate to feed a legal machine that still won't produce the NIC award in a contract.

The west pilots need to reach out and provide a viable alternative to USAPA for the east to get behind.

Waiting is a strategy only if you know what you're waiting for. The time has come for action.

Is capitulation a strategy too?

 

[Move2CLT]

I disagree. The west was too lazy to engage the east person-to-person and present a viable alternative to the emotion post NIC. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Now the tide has turned against USAPA, but the west continues to sit on the sidelines and donate to feed a legal machine that still won't produce the NIC award in a contract.

The west pilots need to reach out and provide a viable alternative to USAPA for the east to get behind.

Waiting is a strategy only if you know what you're waiting for. The time has come for action.

Are you fing crazy?

These east guys cry and you want to make them feel better?

No. Grow some balls and wait. It's just a matter of time. If the stress of waiting is too much for then, by all means, hit the bottle.

 

[luvthe9]

West pilots getting more delusional by the day, so sad, clousure is coming though, I thought Elise would have told you boys by now.

 

[mrbreeze]

A few observations if I may.

I think I finally get the East or USAPA strategy. It's very similar to the "Scorched Earth" strategy used by the Russians when Germany invaded. USAPA has sued everything but the potted plants in the US Airways Lobby, not so much in hope of victory but in hopes of frustrating the other side into capitulation.

If you look at the West as Germany and East as Russia, it kind of plays out (To Date) in a similar way. Army of Leonidas overruns USAPA in court. Result? More court actions, Kasher looks like a loser for USAPA and where are the pilots? no place close to a list or a contract. It occurred to me that USAPA can lose every single court case and still deny the implementation if the Nic Award for years to come.

So here everyone is. Dug in like the troops in a Russian winter waiting for an opportunity to make a decisive move. This is all about the senior folks on the e East getting to retirement age with all of the perks of their considerable seniority. Another 5 years of delay, which is entirely possible and then? Then it won't matter and a list will be generated and approved and maybe a few dollars in raises. Kind of a sleazy move but an effective one to date.

SH,
You are on the right track.....now add in an LOA93 win for the East......why would we care about a joint contract with the West? However, if we lose LOA93, then people will be rubbing their chins rethinking their positions......that is why Kasher's delayed decision is such a big deal.....it will make or break this log jam.

btw, most of the East pilots are so fed up with being screwed repeatedly over the years and also, being this close to retirement,.....what's a few more thousand bucks to lose? We are all ready to burn it down....hell, what do we have to lose at this point? BUT....Look what we have to gain with a Kasher win.....an opportunity to have a much better 5 yrs before retirement, along with an increase in our IRAs.

That should be obvious to all people. It's not about screwing the West...it's about our best shot before retirement.

Now, this may come across as selfish or an "I got mine" attitude....sorry about that. Bottom line is that most of us are on our way out and will leave it all to the West group....but, hey....WE WERE HERE FIRST!!! You can't cut in line, regardless of your excuse.

So, SH.....tell me who looks greedy in your opinion....East or West?

breeze

 

[Claxon]

Are you fing crazy?

These east guys cry and you want to make them feel better?

No. Grow some balls and wait. It's just a matter of time. If the stress of waiting is too much for then, by all means, hit the bottle.

Time to crawl back to rehab Franke Disciple. The stress of 5yrs of waiting for the unattainable western nirvana is just a mirage. You are no closer than you were ages ago. You of all, have much to cry about. Crying2us about CLT. The mirage of unfulfilled dreams. Must be very frustrating to steal the eastern routes, then have to take the early van to leave on short order.

 

[luvthe9]

A few observations if I may.

I think I finally get the East or USAPA strategy. It's very similar to the "Scorched Earth" strategy used by the Russians when Germany invaded. USAPA has sued everything but the potted plants in the US Airways Lobby, not so much in hope of victory but in hopes of frustrating the other side into capitulation.

Sparrow, you don't have a clue about anything, when it comes to suing the west wins on that field you are obviously cluless on whats going on. The west will be nothing to us shortly, we on the east are so tired of subsidizing their losing operation. PS Doug does not have your back!!!!

 

[Black Swan]

A few observations if I may.

I think I finally get the East or USAPA strategy. It's very similar to the "Scorched Earth" strategy used by the Russians when Germany invaded. USAPA has sued everything but the potted plants in the US Airways Lobby, not so much in hope of victory but in hopes of frustrating the other side into capitulation.

If you look at the West as Germany and East as Russia, it kind of plays out (To Date) in a similar way. Army of Leonidas overruns USAPA in court. Result? More court actions, Kasher looks like a loser for USAPA and where are the pilots? no place close to a list or a contract. It occurred to me that USAPA can lose every single court case and still deny the implementation if the Nic Award for years to come.

So here everyone is. Dug in like the troops in a Russian winter waiting for an opportunity to make a decisive move. This is all about the senior folks on the e East getting to retirement age with all of the perks of their considerable seniority. Another 5 years of delay, which is entirely possible and then? Then it won't matter and a list will be generated and approved and maybe a few dollars in raises. Kind of a sleazy move but an effective one to date.

SH, you are way off. The West and Leonidas sued in Addington. Their Desert Judge over reached, and got them taken to San Fran and the 9th where Addingtons' wheels came off. How is that a loss for USAPA? Then it went to Supreme Court, or tried, a win for USAPA. Then Judge Wake got his drawers lowered, and he was spanked and his trial was ERASED. How is that a loss for USAPA? Then the 9th came out, and said the Nic was not the required list. All paid for by Leonidas. How is that a loss for USAPA? You honestly need to read something other than what the West says here. The only real loss for USAPA, was having the injunction on it. Every other major carrier has one. So really, how is that a loss other than the status quo for AMR, DAL, UAL having the same? If any organization has been the loser, it is Leonidas. They blew 2 mill in Addington, and have yet to get the Nic. Now Judge Silver is extremely aware of what happened to Wake , and what the 9th said. How is that a loss for USAPA?
This below is what Leonidas got the 9th to say, when they pushed Addington to the max. They got this little gem below. How is this a loss for USAPA?


[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implement-
ing the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots fur-
loughs, Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

 

[luvthe9]

Time to crawl back to rehab Franke Disciple. The stress of 5yrs of waiting for the unattainable western nirvana is just a mirage. You are no closer than you were ages ago. You of all, have much to cry about. Crying2us about CLT. The mirage of unfulfilled dreams. Must be very frustrating to steal the eastern routes, then have to take the early van to leave on short order.

You can't change the minds of scabs. They worship Dan Cloud and their old boss Frankie.!!!!

 

[SparrowHawk]

Time to crawl back to rehab Franke Disciple. The stress of 5yrs of waiting for the unattainable western nirvana is just a mirage. You are no closer than you were ages ago. You of all, have much to cry about. Crying2us about CLT. The mirage of unfulfilled dreams. Must be very frustrating to steal the eastern routes, then have to take the early van to leave on short order.

Hey, how are things in Claxonia? You know that private little world you live on? Hey can apollo come out to play?? Care to explain the non stop Bill Franke references? The last airline in the US he was involved in the pilots got a significant raise. One in fact that place the Little Sisters of the Poor Airlines aka Spirit ahead of all that scary talent at US wage wise. When was your last wage Boy Genius?

 

[luvthe9]

Hey, how are things in Claxonia? You know that private little world you live on? Hey can apollo come out to play?? Care to explain the non stop Bill Franke references? The last airline in the US he was involved in the pilots got a significant raise. One in fact that place the Little Sisters of the Poor Airlines aka Spirit ahead of all that scary talent at US wage wise. When was your last wage Boy Genius?

I think we have a Boeing Boy cluless clone here, they must have at a ffocus session or something. He has not done his homework on Bill Franke of Dan Cloud I bet.

 

[luvthe9]

Hey Sparrow would you like someone like this in your field? I think not.