US Pilots Labor Discussion

[eastcoast]

Did I miss something? Did Kasher's decision come out?

Here's a straight forward answer to a straight forward question:

No. Still waiting. You missed nothing. Just more stirring of the pot.

For the life of me I still can't figure out why presumably educated, professional people make simple conversation so difficult.

 

[3dtv]

P.S. $1.15 Billion divided by 5,000 pilots = $230,000 per pilot. Maybe USAPA should not have fired Seham's firm and Professional Negotiator Scott Peterson. At least USAPA now hase two new line pilots with no negotiating experience to do the NAC's costing. I'm sure glad USAPA does not use ALPA E&FA Department for this work like Continental, Delta, United, Southwest, and American's pilots do.

So foolish, so misguided. Do they at least pay you to post your FUD and incorrect numbers?

The NAC is proposing within a couple dollars of the low end of industry standard rates. No where over 200k, no where near a billion.

You can tell when Kirby is not telling the truth if you see his lips moving. Just like reading usa320pilot NON unbiased facts.

 

[Black Swan]

US Airways said: "As of last week, using the Association’s costing methodology for their proposals; the first year increase in total pilot costs was $1.15 billion, with an approximate $300 million cost increase in total pilot costs for each year thereafter. This analysis did not include additional costs associated with Sections 8, 13, 18, 26, and 27. Obviously, there is extensive work to be done in order to narrow the sizable gap between the Association’s current proposal and what the Company can realistically afford."

USA320Pilot asks: For the year US Airways has a net profit of about $90 million. A $1.15 billion + USAPA proposed pilot payroll increase, if accepted by management, would increase the company's payroll by over $1 billion in one year and reduce the carrier's cash on hand from $2.4 billion to $1.3 billion from the end of 3Q cash balance. Is USAPA's "all rookie" NAC being realistic and can they obtain a new contract?

Scott Kirby said: “I will take a minute to talk about our relationship with USAPA. It’s not about working something out it’s about leverage and trying to overreach. If that’s what they’re going to do were not going to get things worked out. It’s unfortunate. It’s harmful to everybody in this room. It’s harmful to the company. I wish it could change. But, we do have a working relationship with all of the other unions. We don’t have a working relationship with USAPA. I wish that could change. I think we need USAPA to change that because we do have a working relationship with everybody else. Everybody but USAPA.”

USA320Pilot asks: How harmful is it for the pilots and 27,000 other employees for USAPA to be the only US Airways union to not have a "working relationship" with management?"

Kirby is 1000% correct. There is NO working relationship with the East pilots. That is why we had to go to Kasher to cut through the bullcrap, and make them pay on their obligations. They better get on the fuel hedging or whatever it takes to come up with the money to pay us. Sell HQ or whatever assets they have to. The day of reckoning is coming. They welched for two years on paying their obligations. Pay up. Kirby had two years to save up what he was obliged to pay over his supposed misunderstanding of the term FROZEN. The FREEZE is up, PAY UP.
Nobody on the East wants any contract. The Kasher payout will be fine. We don't expect a contract, and are not as naive as the friends out west who believe acceptance of the Nic suddenly opens the door to a contract. The only way anyone here is going to get a raise is to strike, or have an arbitrator force the crooks to pay. Only the naive believe the other groups will get a contract from this group. They will all be forced to fight when the day comes.

 

[Move2CLT]

Yawn.

I'm sure Kirby is quaking. You've been barking that bark for how many years?

And speaking of obligations...

 

[Black Swan]

US Airways said: "As of last week, using the Association’s costing methodology for their proposals; the first year increase in total pilot costs was $1.15 billion, with an approximate $300 million cost increase in total pilot costs for each year thereafter. This analysis did not include additional costs associated with Sections 8, 13, 18, 26, and 27. Obviously, there is extensive work to be done in order to narrow the sizable gap between the Association’s current proposal and what the Company can realistically afford."

USA320Pilot asks: For the year US Airways has a net profit of about $90 million. A $1.15 billion + USAPA proposed pilot payroll increase, if accepted by management, would increase the company's payroll by over $1 billion in one year and reduce the carrier's cash on hand from $2.4 billion to $1.3 billion from the end of 3Q cash balance. Is USAPA's "all rookie" NAC being realistic and can they obtain a new contract?

Scott Kirby said: “I will take a minute to talk about our relationship with USAPA. It’s not about working something out it’s about leverage and trying to overreach. If that’s what they’re going to do were not going to get things worked out. It’s unfortunate. It’s harmful to everybody in this room. It’s harmful to the company. I wish it could change. But, we do have a working relationship with all of the other unions. We don’t have a working relationship with USAPA. I wish that could change. I think we need USAPA to change that because we do have a working relationship with everybody else. Everybody but USAPA.”

USA320Pilot asks: How harmful is it for the pilots and 27,000 other employees for USAPA to be the only US Airways union to not have a "working relationship" with management?"

Black Swan asks: When is the LOA 93 Party that Legal is throwing now according to USA 320 Pilot ending?
Black Swan answers: IT IS LONG OVER!
Black Swan asks: have Chip Munns predictions EVER come true?
Black Swan answers: HELL NO! Just ask him about the UAL stories he was pushing! Kirby is 1000% correct. There is NO working relationship with the East pilots. That is why we had to go to Kasher to cut through the bullcrap, and make them pay on their obligations. They better get on the fuel hedging, West pilot pay reductions or whatever it takes to come up with the money to pay us. Sell HQ or whatever assets they have to. The day of reckoning is coming. They welched for two years on paying their obligations. Pay up. Kirby had two years to save up what he was obliged to pay over his supposed misunderstanding of the term FROZEN. The FREEZE is up, PAY UP.\
When the time comes for the other groups to actually get a raise, Kirby will fight them.

 

[Move2CLT]

Swan =

Bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, yip, yip, bark.

 

[Claxon]

Swan =

Bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, yip, yip, bark.

Move2 CLT, the tranny fell out of the truck, stuck in the foreclosed driveway. bark bark bark, Franke Air has the collar on tight to the western loudmouth. There is no move. Other than the bowels connected to the mouth.

 

[Move2CLT]

Move2 CLT, the tranny fell out of the truck, stuck in the foreclosed driveway. bark bark bark, Franke Air has the collar on tight to the western loudmouth. There is no move. Other than the bowels connected to the mouth.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhh :blink:


Nope, can't dumb down enough to understand you.

Sorry.

 

[Claxon]

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhh :blink:


Nope, can't dumb down enough to understand you.

Sorry.

Ask the western genius Vasin to help.

 

[luvthe9]

I do feel bad for those poor westies, no NIC ever for them and all the money AOL is bleeding them of and nothing to show for it. The east will be hiring over 30 a month starting next year. What's better is their own dues money THEY pay being used to fight them, oh well. Sucks to be a westie these days. Oh the devastation that is coming. Buh bye to picket line crossing friends.

 

[Reed Richards]

So foolish, so misguided. Do they at least pay you to post your FUD and incorrect numbers?

The NAC is proposing within a couple dollars of the low end of industry standard rates. No where over 200k, no where near a billion.

I am responding to your post only. This is not personal, and not any line pilot's fault for not knowing. You are not being told by your union what is going on. The BPR is not paying attention either. This all has nothing to do with "what we deserve."

The NAC is indeed asking for over 1B. Not going to happen. And the rates they are asking for are indeed above industry standard. Big misconceptions here, and the sad thing is the NAC is not doing proper costing on a lot of their "asks." A good negotiator has to know exactly what they are asking for, not just throw out numbers and hope they stick. I would guess the Company knows the exact value of every offer from both sides, to the penny.

Maybe Capt. Underpants can give us the truth.

You will soon hear much more on this from others much smarter than me. They would be really, really smart.

RR

 

[cactusboy53]

I do feel bad for those poor westies, no NIC ever for them and all the money AOL is bleeding them of and nothing to show for it. The east will be hiring over 30 a month starting next year. What's better is their own dues money THEY pay being used to fight them, oh well. Sucks to be a westie these days. Oh the devastation that is coming. Buh bye.

Don't feel bad for us, Luvr. We stand firmly on moral, ethical & legal grounds (think David v. Goliath). The Nicolau award sits on Doug's desk (dusted off weekly by the cleaning staff). We shall wait patiently for the courts & arbitrators to do their thing. It may take years, but LCC has business to conduct and your little DOH scheme is getting in the way. BTW, it doesn't suck to be us (largely). We are more unified that EVER. Best money ever spent & USAPA is our biggest funding incentive.

Let's see....the last prediction was 3 westies fired: NOPE....just on extended paid vacation. Nice work if you can get it (pun intended). Next prediction: "devastation". Sounds like fun. You loose...devastation. You win....Westies are whip-sawed against the Easties....devastation (not to mention wailing and gnashing of teeth).

You are right about using our dues money against us. That's just not "cricket", as they say. It's a great thing that we have the profit sharing checks to offset that! Another $76 Million last quarter! Thanks for falling on your sword (again), even if you're "on board".

I tell you what, it fear smelled like garlic...you couldn't get Dracula anywhere near the USAPA World Headquarters!

 

[Move2CLT]

Ask the western genius Vasin to help.

No one can dumb down enough to understand you. Not even your fellow easties care enough to stick up for you.

 

[mrbreeze]

Let me reiterate. I forgot Prater was listening. Even if Kasher finds in the pilots favor, It is still LOA93; the payrates are the only thing that changes.
Does that clarify it for you? Sorry, I forgot I was talking to alpa. No common sense required.

V

C'mon V.....you know the guy has the mental capacity of a 12 yr old....cut him some slack.
breeze

 

[Crzipilot]

Big misconceptions here, and the sad thing is the NAC is not doing proper costing on a lot of their "asks." A good negotiator has to know exactly what they are asking for, not just throw out numbers and hope they stick. I would guess the Company knows the exact value of every offer from both sides, to the penny.
RR

Interesting, as under ALPO, it seems there were a many of give backs (even prior to 9/11) which the company costed at X amount when in fact is was XX amount. But alpo grabbed at it. Or the costing of another arbitration, with 330 flying or something, with the company saying Oh we would have just deployed it on trips w/o a IRO. Uhmmm...since when has the company done that. etc etc........ Seems the NAC is just taking the companies lead on how to cost numbers...