US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Black Swan]

There will be no dictated outcome and Silver has hinted in the direction on more than one occasion.

The outcome was the Nicolau award. No court is going to modify a federally arbitrated award.

Once again, there is no way around the Nic. Its status quo or Nic and nothing else.

This is what makes us all smile so much Move. Keep on believing it was a FEDERALLY ARBITRATED AWARD. This is why Leonidas keeps blowing your money, and that is fine. :blink: :blink:

"He was the only voting member of a three-member Air Line Pilots Association arbitration board that heard the case in late 2006." Re George Nicolau



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/2009/04/26/20090426biz-usairwayspilots0426side.html#ixzz1cCqQp4Bt

 

[fodase]

For the better part of six years you've tried to screw each other to no avail, you should have been focused in beating every last dime out of Doug Parker's wallet.

U need to STOP this BS. The west has done absolutelly nothing here but live up to its agreements. Get ur facts straight, there is only one party that has caused this.

 

[Zone5]

1. There are no "extreme" supporters on the West. The West pilots that support the Nic are far from "extreme". An "extreme" West position would be , all the east pilots should be stapled to the bottom of the West list. That would be "extreme", and why the West never adopted such a position.

2. The "overreaching" position usapa has taken, is indeed "extreme". That is why it was shot down by Nic, was forbiden in the TA, and why it violates the company's statement of labor principles.

3. The east even went to "extreme" measures to try to force their "extreme" position. Luckily, in the end, the "fairness" of the Nic will prevail.

4. This idea that "fairness" or justice revolves around everybody being equally pissed off is ludicrous.

5. With any luck, the dicated outcome will be seen as "extreme" by the reneging malcontents who did not deserve as good a treatment as they got from Nic in the first place.

Perhaps a better description of the more entrenched proponents of their positions on either side of the Mississippi would be "adamant".

I suspect that a graphical plot of the sentiments of the entire pilot group here at Useless Airways, regarding the SLI issue, would be shaped like an upside down bell curve, with many more opinions at either far end of the graph, than in the middle.

The result, if this is so, being the stalemate currently in effect.

The constant refrain for either side to "just give up" is unproductive and highly unlikely.

Unless somehow the current reverse bell curve becomes inverted, the solution will require a still to be litigated ("forced") settlement, which is not likely to be everything any of the more "adamant" proponents, on either side desire. Ergo, nobody ends up "happy", that's why mergers ALWAYS suck!

seajay

 

[Res Judicata]

.

For the better part of six years you've tried to screw each other to no avail, you should have been focused in beating every last dime out of Doug Parker's .

Precicsely HOW has the West "been trying to screw" the EAST for the last 6years? If you think negotiating in Good Faith is a screw job than you're probably beyond help like Claxhole. The East decided to become absolutely untreatable degenerates and thieves forming a quasi terrorist organization with NO OTHER purpose than to pervert the system and labor unionism itself into a one sided weapon.

Going to Federal court to fight off a career attack that could prove to be unrecoverable if successful is not "screwing" anybody any more than any OTHER public prosecution of a crime/criminals in a court room. It's called The Law. Something civilized societies hold in high regard.

Remember, a Jury already weighed in on USCABA. Guess what they found? Hint: it WASN'T the West "screwing" the East.

Spin those facts...

 

[Black Swan]

Precicsely HOW has the West "been trying to screw" the EAST for the last 6years? If you think negotiating in Good Faith is a screw job than you're probably beyond help like Claxhole. The East decided to become absolutely untreatable degenerates and thieves forming a quasi terrorist organization with NO OTHER purpose than to pervert the system and labor unionism itself into a one sided weapon.

Going to Federal court to fight off a career attack that could prove to be unrecoverable if successful is not "screwing" anybody any more than any OTHER public prosecution of a crime/criminals in a court room. It's called The Law. Something civilized societies hold in high regard.

Remember, a Jury already weighed in on USCABA. Guess what they found? Hint: it WASN'T the West "screwing" the East.

Spin those facts...

Is that the jury in the trial that was REMANDED? The very fact you keep mentioning that REMANDED trial, is spin itself.

9TH COURT OF APPEALS-SAN FRANCISCO CA.
CONCLUSION
[10] For the foregoing reasons, we hold that Plaintiffs’
DFR claim is not ripe; therefore, the case is REMANDED to
the district court with directions that the action be DIS-
MISSED. No costs to either side.

 

[Res Judicata]

Is that the jury in the trial that was REMANDED? The very fact you keep mentioning that REMANDED trial, is spin itself.

9TH COURT OF APPEALS-SAN FRANCISCO CA.
CONCLUSION
[10] For the foregoing reasons, we hold that Plaintiffs’
DFR claim is not ripe; therefore, the case is REMANDED to
the district court with directions that the action be DIS-
MISSED. No costs to either side.

If that ere the end of the story your may have a point. You convieniently omit the "unquestionably file' problem and the fact that every legal filing as well as both Silver and Conrad discussed Addington and its clear implications for the Company over and over. It's not even REMOTELY as simple you pray to God it is. A fact I suspect you already know.

 

[Res Judicata]

.
..........

 

[nic4us]

Yeah, seventeen year F/O would seem to be less qualified than a three year total time in a cockpit captain. Sounds to me like projection and may only apply to you.

Whatever happened to ordering a list by number of years in the company cockpit? I'd love to be in a cockpit jump seat with a nicholau mismatch as just getting to the runway would likely provide a tremendous amount of entertainment.

Not only are the usapa supporters welching degenerates, but they are liars as well.


Care to name a single "three year total time in a cockpit captain"?

 

[luvn737s]

The West pilots have a huge disadvantage here and I think their best option is to find a way to a SLI with the East, such as luvn737 suggests.

You still don't get it. What I am suggesting is not negotiating a contract with the east. I think the west and their like-minded counterparts on the east must use this time to grab the top of the bat and play offensive ball against USAPA. DOH will be rejected. USAPA cannot defend their record and they should not be permitted to choose their replacement.

No breezee, the USAPA supporters will howl like stuck pigs when the coalition of east and west join together to present a T/A to be voted on. Don't misinterpret this as a call for middle ground. The west position is easily defensible and will garner support once a dialog has been opened up with those behind the Tobacco Curtain.

 

[Black Swan]

If that ere the end of the story your may have a point. You convieniently omit the "unquestionably file' problem and the fact that every legal filing as well as both Silver and Conrad discussed Addington and its clear implications for the Company over and over. It's not even REMOTELY as simple you pray to God it is. A fact I suspect you already know.

I will take the 9th over both of them. The 9th can trump either one, or both. The 9th did not rule on the ripeness, as we all know. They also very clearly stated it may never be the issue you imply it always is. I quote the 9th again.



[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implement-
ing the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots fur-
loughs, Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

 

[luvn737s]

Care to name a single "three year total time in a cockpit captain"?

Those are the new hires they like to brag about upgrading right out of initial new hire class. I hope the new-hires will hold them accountable when they are furloughed for 6 years like their predecessors.

Don't worry, though because I hear the hotels will be offering "Karma" rates for those pilots stranded because they were denied jumpseats home.

 

[Black Swan]

You still don't get it. What I am suggesting is not negotiating a contract with the east. I think the west and their like-minded counterparts on the east must use this time to grab the top of the bat and play offensive ball against USAPA. DOH will be rejected. USAPA cannot defend their record and they should not be permitted to choose their replacement.

No breezee, the USAPA supporters will howl like stuck pigs when the coalition of east and west join together to present a T/A to be voted on. Don't misinterpret this as a call for middle ground. The west position is easily defensible and will garner support once a dialog has been opened up with those behind the Tobacco Curtain.

What you really don't get is the fact East pilots are honestly for the most part not fed up with USAPA at all, just as we most likely underestimate the resolve of the West pilots to support Leonidas. But remember this, the East pilots are sitting right now waiting for Kasher to deliver his award, and you know how I think it goes. But my feelings aside, the rest of the pilots on the East are focused entirely on this, and there is no angst with USAPA at all. Obviously there are some who are not happy with USAPA, but the majority view it as much better than what has happened under ALPA. All East pilots realize the Nicolau is a non starter. Until that is dropped, the battle will go on ad infinitum. Most East pilots, if Kasher goes against them, know the only way to have any career advancement in the future, is to reject the Nicolau. Acceptance of the Nicolau has no relation to getting a contract, and we are well aware of that fact. We realize we will never be able to unite with the West pilots after the Injunction actions, and will stand alone.

 

[luvthe9]

Everybody take a few more shots it will all be over soon. It's ashame the did not accept DOH they would have been so much better off, so much hiring going on in the east not to mention all the money AOL has bilked out of them.

 

[nic4us]

Is that the jury in the trial that was REMANDED? The very fact you keep mentioning that REMANDED trial, is spin itself.

9TH COURT OF APPEALS-SAN FRANCISCO CA.
CONCLUSION
[10] For the foregoing reasons, we hold that Plaintiffs’
DFR claim is not ripe; therefore, the case is REMANDED to
the district court with directions that the action be DIS-
MISSED. No costs to either side.

You are correct, the 9th remanded Addington, and Wake dismissed. Kind of ironic it still plagues the scab union. Funny thing is, everybody except the scab union knows why Addington ain't going away.


Hey, I hear usapa finally dropped the RICO suit!!!

scabs figured out that they try to push it at all and they would get their asses handed to them, and since they fired that union busting scab lawyer Seeham (RICO filing scumbag lawyer), I guess maybe new counsel was not about to stick its shaft into a hot outlet.

Next up, Kasher devastation. Scab union is going to be crying hard over that loss.

Lets see,,,what else is in the cards for the scabs....oh..I know..the company DJ. How many times did judge Silver reference Addington in her earlier meetings with the scabs, and how many times did she tell the scab lawyer Seeham, that ain't what the 9th said??

Man, usapa ain't going to know what hit them, because they are too stupid to read what is plainly being told to them.

 

[Reed Richards]

No breezee, the USAPA supporters will howl like stuck pigs when the coalition of east and west join together to present a T/A to be voted on.

Funny you mention that...rumor has it the CLT Reps have just such a "dialog" going. Wonder what the Union Buster and the 99' hire are willing to give up? I have seen their previous work, I don't have high expectations.

Anyone know what is in the “comprehensive contract offer” going across the table in a few days? LOA 93 related? (I don’t know)

RR