US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

IMHO, this is where NIC failed us all. Surely we can find something better.

breeze

No. It's done.

 

[crazystnic]

Putting a Reserve F/O ahead of a Captain on the same airplane keeps the other side motivated.

we are not putting RSV FO/s in front of your captains..

 

[mikey60]

You need to pass that info along to your east buddies.

No, everyone else understands it, your the weak link in the chain. THE MERGER,BUYOUT, WHATEVER IS OVER. You cant do anything about it. Now what is your next area.

 

[Move2CLT]

No, everyone else understands it, your the weak link in the chain. THE MERGER,BUYOUT, WHATEVER IS OVER. You cant do anything about it. Now what is your next area.

APOLOGIZE!

 

[noDOH4u]

THE MERGER,BUYOUT, WHATEVER IS OVER. You cant do anything about it.

Same goes for the arbitrated seniority list.

 

[eastcoast]

we are not putting RSV FO/s in front of your captains..

Actually that is exactly what our union and those in control of it have been trying to do since day one. You can argue semantics like no bump no flush, but the result is still the same.

 

[Reed Richards]

Same goes for the arbitrated seniority list.

Hey, please go easy on us for a few more months. Then you can bring down the hammer and impose Nic on us.

We already paid for our 5 year "No Nic" service pins, but cannot hand them out until early May.

RR

 

[Rookie Jr]

Sparrow,

Right on the money! East cockpit conversation very seldom ever mentions the west pilots. I haven't flown with anyone in the last 5 years that ever says anything good about Team Tempe. Most east pilots are just riding this thing into the sunset. If we win the LOA93 pay restoration this board will light up like a christmas tree for a few days. After that the west will have to figure out what they want to do. We will get our 3% pay raises every May 1st until there is a new contract. The attrition in the east will be wild. Every east pilot knows this and that is why we would never give up our attrition. Most east pilots are well aware of this management teams limitations in the business world. AWA was always a dirt bag operation. The pay and benefits have always been bottom of the barrel. Team Tempe will never agree to a contract that pays industry average wages. Never!

Hate

Ok, ok, we get it. We know what you will do if you win LOA93. What will you do if you lose? I have repeatedly asked this question and no one dares to answer. I would predict a mass exodus of dissatisfied east pilots, perhaps some misbehavior (squashed due to the injunction) and then some, like you, will finally quit barking and suck it up.

 

[traderjake]

We already paid for our 5 year "No Nic" service pins, but cannot hand them out until early May.

You going to were it next to your LOA 93 service pin?

 

[Reed Richards]

You going to were it next to your LOA 93 service pin?

Maybe. You still wearing your Cactus pin?

RR

 

[Rookie Jr]

You should look at the seniority list before making statements like that. Like somebody else said, even under DOH nobody that fits the above description would be senior to any west Captain.

However there are a lot of east captains that would be junior to west f/o's hired more than a decade after them under NIC. Look at the NIC list side by side with a list that shows date of hire. There are a lot of 1986 thru 88 hires that would be junior to west guys hired in 99 and 2000 and later in some cases.

Where DOH and NIC get real sticky for the 99 to present hires is when the attrition from retirements is factored in. The east has far more than the west does for the next 15 years as was covered a while back on this thread.

There are valid arguments on both sides for why NIC or DOH is not good for one group or another, but the argument you used that I quoted is not one of them. On a quick look at the list check out the numbers around a pilot with the last name of Warren, a 1986 hire and then look where they fall under the NIC list. These were 737 300 Captains at time of merger.

Edit: Also there were no 1986 and 1987 guys furloughed at the time of the merger.

Your 1986 thru 88 hires were not captains when the PID was established. They were fo's placed appropriately relative to their positions on the NIC.

Consider that much of the attrition you speak of does not open captain seats. Lots of old fo's on the east.

There may not have been 1986 and 1987 hires furloughed at the time of the merger but there were 1989 hires furloughed and if you get your way they will be placed well above former AWA captains. That's not right. Furloughed at the time of the merger belongs at the bottom. Plain and simple. If you are one of those guys suck it up. It's where you belong and where, I believe, you will stay.

 

[Rookie Jr]

I disagree. The west was too lazy to engage the east person-to-person and present a viable alternative to the emotion post NIC. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Now the tide has turned against USAPA, but the west continues to sit on the sidelines and donate to feed a legal machine that still won't produce the NIC award in a contract.

The west pilots need to reach out and provide a viable alternative to USAPA for the east to get behind.

Waiting is a strategy only if you know what you're waiting for. The time has come for action.

With all due respect to you I believe reaching out to the east is a total waste of time. The vast majority of us are willing to wait for the court to decide. We have come this far and compromising is out of the question.

 

[traderjake]

Maybe. You still wearing your Cactus pin?

Sorry, no Cactus pin.

It's not about sides or who's right, it's about what's right .

 

[Zone5]

With all due respect to you I believe reaching out to the east is a total waste of time. The vast majority of us are willing to wait for the court to decide. We have come this far and compromising is out of the question.

Unfortunately, I think you are probably correct. The two extremes East & West are far too entrenched and vested, both emotionally and financially, to broker a compromise.

The trench warfare will continue until a higher power (the court) imposes an armistice. With any luck, the dictated outcome will piss both sides off, as equally as possible, thereby achieving a "fair" resolution.

seajay

 

[Move2CLT]

With all due respect to you I believe reaching out to the east is a total waste of time. The vast majority of us are willing to wait for the court to decide. We have come this far and compromising is out of the question.

I still can't, for the life of me, understand how he could think the onus was on us to present anything to the east.

What was med/arb for then? Why did we spend all that time and money on meetings with the east?

And then to say we're sitting on our butts! BS!! We fought for and destroyed the DOH cram down effort put forth by the east. That's not sitting around.