US Pilots Labor Discussion

[USA320Pilot]

ITT News Update (Cactus 18 speak about the RICO lawsuit): November 9, 2011

In May, 2008, a group of West pilots, known as the "Cactus 18," were viciously attacked and slandered as mafia criminals—by the very same organization that claimed to be their legitimate union. The case was thrown out of Federal court—twice—but not before inflicting tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and untold trauma on their families. Their "crime": exercising their rights to disagree with their union.

Click here to watch the video.

 

[A320 Driver]

You're right and this will end when the courts finally decide that the Nic is it or when a USAPA proposal meets the DFR test. What you see as compromise, the west sees as compromise to a compromise - Nic didn't accept either side's position. You're basically asking them to do what the east should have learned NOT to do long ago - negotiate against themselves. You and some faction of east pilots might accept Nic with attrition protection, but others on the east would say that that wasn't good enough - a compromise to the compromise of the comprise was needed, so the west is expected to lower the bar yet again. Repeat until enough on the east will accept the Nic as altered. So where do they draw the line? Compromise enough and the Nic starts to work as though it was a DOH list.

Jim

That's true. Some see all or nothing as a viable bagaining proposal. I call it a 50/50 gamble and I have NEVER been good at those.

Driver

 

[A320 Driver]

FINAL & BINDING ARBITRATION. PERIOD. An UNRESTRICTED NICOLAU AWARD IS THE COMPROMISE. PERIOD. See you in court. Parker needs this nonsense done that you kids have started. The courts will likely tell him what we all already know: He will have to use the list delivered by the former CBA, as it is the product of an agreed upon process by all parties.

If for some reason the courts hold LCC harmless, and LCC accepts ANYTHING other than an unrestricted Nicolau Award....then USAPA will be the bad side of ANOTHER losing DFR......ALONE.

We Westies see that the dim light bulb is getting a few watts, but for some reason the SIMPLE REALITY of the situation that you are in just hasn't quite sunk in yet. We're sitting in PHX with a bucket of popcorn and some beverages, pulling up a chair to watch the festivities.

You kids can construct a nice white picket fence around USAPA headquarters. Paint the words "conditions", "restrictions", "harm to the east", & "capture attrition" to you heart's content. How's that "grab you"?

SEE???

I knew it!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aquagreen73s]

SEE???

I knew it!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

Oh the horror...the West doesn't have the stomach to compromise the compromise, even when the original compromise does more for the East than for the West.

 

[Black Swan]

Your buddies Swan and Underpants are going to be cryin a "WYE RIVER", when it is made undeniably apparent to you morons that the Nic is not going away, and Kasher tells them that when you un-FREEZE something...it is simply no longer FROZEN.

Wait till the WYE RIVER freezes soon with the new East pay rates. Nic4 will get a contractual education that will reinforce the notion that FROZEN has nothing to do with NEGOTIATE in our contract. Keep up that wishful thinking, pretty soon the West pilots will be the lowest paid in the industry, a spot they held for decades.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Back of The Trip Sheet Update for 11 Nov 2011: ALPA's AMR Eagle Pilots Reach Tentative New Contract

Dear Subscriber,

Back of The Trip Sheet Update: November 11, 2011: ALPA's AMR Eagle Pilots recently negotiated a new contract that provides its members enhanced job security that should protect a pilot's job for a minimum of 10 years. This agreement and Eagle's flow through to American Airlines delivers a stable long term employment platform for Eagle's pilots. As RJ pilots narrow the distance or surpass US Airways' pilots in pay, benefits, and job security protections has the time come to elect a national, major airline pilot union that has a long history of success with legacy commercial airlines?

Link to BofTTS Update

Recent BofTTS Updates

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Fraternally,

webadmin@unbiasedfacts.org

Share The Facts! We encourage you to forward this email to friends who want to know what's really going on with USAPA.

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Another ALPA pilot group moves forward while US Airways' pilots lead by USAPA remain stuck in neutral and bottom of the barrel.

 

[Reed Richards]

What about the harm the west pilots have suffered? How does usapa take care of that?

1500 "Hello Kitty" band-aids ready to ship on my dime. Should I mail them to Leo?

RR

 

[Phoenix]

ITT News Update (Cactus 18 speak about the RICO lawsuit): November 9, 2011

In May, 2008, a group of West pilots, known as the "Cactus 18," were viciously attacked and slandered as mafia criminals—by the very same organization that claimed to be their legitimate union. The case was thrown out of Federal court—twice—but not before inflicting tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and untold trauma on their families. Their "crime": exercising their rights to disagree with their union.

Click here to watch the video.

Is there anyone you won't slurp?

 

[Reed Richards]

Already a Grandpa X2, Mic. The courts will sooner rather than later tell Mr. Parker what we all already know. He will then have to do the thing that you die hard USAPIAN's fear the most: send out a TA to ratify a new contract with an unrestricted Nicolau Award. It will pass with enough money. Personally I won't vote YEA until it's the Kirby Proposal (with some slight protections for SCOPE, etc.) and at least current DAL wage.

Oh this is grand! Now we are discussing a fantasy contract with Nic...and talking about what it will take to ratify it from a West pilot. Again, WITH the Nic included!!!!!

Let me give you my take. I will ratify a straight DOH contract with LOA 93 stapled on it.

Thank goodness the fun has returned to this board. And that is what it is, entertainment pure and simple. Thanks Cactusboy.

RR

 

[BoeingBoy]

Let me give you my take. I will ratify a straight DOH contract with LOA 93 stapled on it.

And there's the other side of the coin, 320 Driver...both sides have their hard core so no further compromise seems likely.

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

Why ask WYE? Try a TA-lite: The Kirby Proposal with some improvements, an unrestricted Nicolau seniority list, and current DAL wage. That contract would be ratified by an UNBELIEVABLE percentage. Now I know you think my prediction is preposterous, but it is more likely that would pass vs. the trumped up "address-gate" accused getting "fired" wouldn't you agree?

If USAir gave us the DAL contract, the pilot group would pass any seniority list, be it DOH, NIC, tallest to shortest, fattest to skinniest, or fastest to slowest, it wouldn't matter.

The only problem is that any of Doug's offers don't count if they are made while he is in DETOX recovering from another DUI.

 

[Phoenix]

What about the harm the west pilots have suffered? How does usapa take care of that?

Throw yourselves a pity party and invite the clowns for consolation.

 

[Reed Richards]

And there's the other side of the coin, 320 Driver...both sides have their hard core so no further compromise seems likely.

Jim

And you cannot, or will not, READ. I don't see the words "only if" or "unless" in my comments.

Tell you what, from now on when you post your "no further compromise" barb just say "number Six." We will all understand, just like you do with your caretaker.

Efforts at compromise are alive. I read it right here on this forum, it has to be true.

RR

 

[BoeingBoy]

And you cannot, or will not, READ. I don't see the words "only if" or "unless" in my comments.

You're right, and if I misunderstood your post I apologize although you'd have to agree that some of your fellow easties have shown no sign of a willingness to compromise on DOH.

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

You're right, and if I misunderstood your post I apologize although you'd have to agree that some of your fellow easties have shown no sign of a willingness to compromise on DOH.

Jim

Thanks for that. Indeed some show no sign of willingness to compromise. Even out flying the line I cannot get a real grip on how many are on that platform. I just don't fly with enough guys to know. My gut is most are willing for some give and take.

Reaching out, especially from within the union is a very touchy thing...but I am being assured that is indeed happening. Not in the loop so I have no idea of any details.

Some opportunities may soon present that might allow for some give and take to occur. I have predicted many times here East and West might again be bargaining for themselves in a three or four way. That scenario might allow for everyone to come out equally unhappy, as I hoped Mr. Nic was going to do. It won't assure DOH or Nic, but might allow for some movement forward. I know that idea brings anger to some, but it is one way out of this quagmire.

Enough Kum Ba Ya..back to the fun.

RR