US Pilots Labor Discussion

[eastcoast]

I guess when you don't like those in charge, and you have miserably failed to participate in the process, it might look like a dictatorship to you.

RR

What participation have we had with regard to the decisions to file suits or obtaining legal council? What participation are you talking about.

 

[eastcoast]

How about YOU do something about it ?

As soon as I get a vote, I will. If a contract is presented with the Nic I will vote yes if it is reasonable. If a representation election occurs I will probably vote against USAPA depending on the other choices. I will not support Cleary. If a coalition is built with the west to change the CBL to remove the mandate for DOH which only sets us up for a DFR, I will vote on that too.

It's becoming obvious that many of you on this forum do not want discussion, alternatives, membership votes, or anything to alter the course of delay, delay, delay. That's fine with me. But don't pretend for a minute or expect anyone else to believe that you are the voice of the majority. You have no proof of that. Speak for yourselves. Don't presume to speak for me or anyone else.

 

[eastcoast]

and East Coast, how fast were those 26 year Cleary types and those 17 year FO's going to move up once 65 Kicks in and the EAST retirements start..
That is the crux of this, why should an AWA New hire go in front of those who kept this place going by giving up the pensions and the pay!

Not as fast as many claim around here. Have you actually looked at the number of captain vacancies? Have you then compared that to the upgrade Nic accounted for with the 2/3 ratio? It's not Armageddon. The idea that this is about attrition simply doesn't hold water. We gave up more than I care to think about. But we did it to keep alive. We did it to survive. Not to take from another group. The west has every right to benefit from this merger and keep what they had. They should not pay for our misfortune with their good fortune. Have you all forgotten (or maybe never accepted) that they did not come along to our property and added themselves to our company? Their company and the carcass of ours was merged to form a new one.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Why don't you tell Junior Cleary to fill up the Tauruses and move USAPA to PHX. Explain how that makes sense since corporate HQ isn't moving to CLT anytime soon. Expect to have to explain it to him at least twice.

He ain't too bright.

The union HQ is for the convenience of the pilots. CLT is the airline's largest hub. So, that's where the HQ is. Simple (but WAY over your head, obviously.)

The old ALPA MEC had their offices in PIT (the largest hub when the MEC office location was chosen,) but the company was headquartered in Arlington, VA. Nobody had a problem with that.

 

[Injunction junction]

You are on record with your statement. You said you had seen a draft of the LOA93 arbitration award. If you have, then something has happened to the process. It would be better for you if you are just lying.

Driver <_<

Ask your people in fact ASK Tracy!! I am certain that she will lie to you as she has been doing. Just ask her straight up if Kasher has given them a draft and if not then why the executive session???????????????????????????????????

See my man your expectations have been managed for so long that you will grasp onto anything that remotely sounds like you will get something.

Wake up for once and see that you are losing and question those you have failed to deal with that have led you astray for so long.

Injunction

 

[Injunction junction]

How about YOU do something about it ?

There is nothing he can do at this point. They need to try and save face at this juncture and even that will result in failure. They will blame everyone in the book when the company finally announces that they have no choice but to go with the arbitrated award results.

Now after that is done then usloppy can try and stall but that will produce action by the company and DFR claims by the pilots for non movement. Yeah usloppy really painted themselves into deadend.

Injunction

 

[Rookie Jr]

Then you will pick up the pieces? And you guys call us stupid..........

Not stupid. We will abide by the decision of the court. A concept you have yet to master.

 

[Phoenix]

Not stupid. We will abide by the decision of the court. A concept you have yet to master.

Name one court we have chosen not to abide by....

 

[luvn737s]

We already had a vote on Nic, it was concluded on 18 April 08 and a new CBL and Union was voted in.

Hold on there skippy. We've been told that USAPA was voted in to repudiate the actions of bad ol' ALPA, not to avoid the NIC.

So which is it? Eventually a jury will want to know.

 

[Reed Richards]

Hold on there skippy. We've been told that USAPA was voted in to repudiate the actions of bad ol' ALPA, not to avoid the NIC.

So which is it? Eventually a jury will want to know.

Avoiding, voiding, not using, setting aside the Nic was job one in the long list of bad ol' ALPA actions to be "repudiated." Mission accomplished.

But please, give me a break. Why USAPA was supposedly founded has no bearing on any DFR, never did. USAPA is your union now, legally sanctioned by the NMB.

If you choose to make "why a union was formed" instead of "what the union did" your argument in front of a jury (if you get there) then go right ahead....Skippy.

RR

 

[SparrowHawk]

I just got back from the Hennepin County Library and while I was there I happened to be sitting next to a Mesaba Flight Attendant. So now you're thinking "So What"!

Well let me tell ya, kids you're the laughing stock of aviation. Not your company, YOU!

Her words were, "what a bunch of idiots, it will never be solved". 3202 pages of the aviation version of the Jerry Springer show and I'm thinking she's right on the money with her comments.

 

[Black Swan]

I don't think that would be a representation of the will or mood of the east for several reasons. First, as you said, some or maybe even many of the west might vote for Cleary as a strategic move, which could skew the results in Cleary's favor. That would falsely motivate some on the east to say "see! we support DOH, separate ops, and LOA 93 forever!" Others on the east might vote for him to save face, but would also vote for a Contract with the Nic in order to move on.

A representational election on the other hand, would go more along philosophical lines. Either you support USAPA's strategy and leadership, or you support a change that leads to a contract that very well might include the Nic. But as I stated earlier, the best way to shut everyone up is to put a Nic inclusive contract up for a vote and see where the cards fall. That would be the simplest and truest form of democracy, and that would show beyond a reasonable doubt where the will of the collective pilot group actually is. Majority rules.

The reason that will never happen is because those in control, the ones who in my opinion are now in the minority, are afraid of the result. They claim majority rule, but they are afraid of what the majority actually want. Dictatorship in it's purest form. They want to dictate from a position of power, what we all should think, believe, and vote on. Just look at all the talking heads here claiming to speak for us all.

DOH is in the C&BL. That is the reason it will not get put in the contract the company will never agree to. It is that simple. You need to be a little patient. Wait until the arbitration is finished, then talk about Cleary. If this is a win, Cleary will be the best thing that ever happened to you.

 

[luvn737s]

Why USAPA was supposedly founded has no bearing on any DFR, never did.

Really? I would imagine Harper would have broiled Bradford over this very issue if Bradford had not been too much of a coward to show up in court. If USAPA was designed to disadvantage the west and presented a DOH seniority list in a T/A to be voted on, the DFR would be a slam dunk.

You gotta keep your stories straight if you want to depend on lies. That's why the truth is so much easier t deal with. There's only one of it.

 

[luvn737s]

If this is a win, Cleary will be the best thing that ever happened to you.

You mean if Cleary gets you the thing ALPA negotiated?

What do you easties plan on doing with your tail once you catch it?

 

[Black Swan]

Where is our constant companion Move2Clt?? :blink: :blink: :blink: