US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cactusboy53]

Cleary cannot win another term on the East with only East votes. Ferguson has told us the West will elect him (see my post last night for the mechanics of that) because he is doing such a good job on screwing up, and supposedly providing DFR fodder.

So if the problem is Cleary, you can only blame yourself(West) if he gets re elected.

You will do as you wish, but don't blame us if you get three more years of the same, or worse.

RR

No, you're still going to get the blame. There are still many Cleary supporters on the east that think he's the best. This will finish in court, so hang on and enjoy the ride!

 

[luvthe9]

I just got back from the Hennepin County Library and while I was there I happened to be sitting next to a Mesaba Flight Attendant. So now you're thinking "So What"!

Well let me tell ya, kids you're the laughing stock of aviation. Not your company, YOU!

Her words were, "what a bunch of idiots, it will never be solved". 3202 pages of the aviation version of the Jerry Springer show and I'm thinking she's right on the money with her comments.

You have to be one of those wanna be pilots to be hanging out with us so much. That means so much from a "Mesaba Flight Attendant" now go get me a coke.

 

[luvthe9]

No, you're still going to get the blame. There are still many Cleary supporters on the east that think he's the best. This will finish in court, so hang on and enjoy the ride!

Right on Cactusboy, enjoying the ride!!! 😉

 

[Reed Richards]

Really? I would imagine Harper would have broiled Bradford over this very issue if Bradford had not been too much of a coward to show up in court. If USAPA was designed to disadvantage the west and presented a DOH seniority list in a T/A to be voted on, the DFR would be a slam dunk.

You gotta keep your stories straight if you want to depend on lies. That's why the truth is so much easier t deal with. There's only one of it.

Coward? Bradford kicked your collective rear ends, and had no obligation or desire to show up in Wake's kangaroo court for an obviously unripe proceeding.

But now that you have teed this one up for me (what a great day this has been here, no move2Clt and softballs galore!) I have to chuckle! Marty taking over 2M of your moneys and did not even know who the sitting president was of USAPA. That one was a laugh riot, and a failed summons!

RR

 

[luvthe9]

Where is our favorite flame baitor Move2CLT? It's no fun with out his infinite wisdom here. 🙁

 

[Piedmont1984]

Cleary, whether you like him or hate him, is the incumbent. He is intimately familiar with the issues and controls the union levers, particularly communications. He has already begun his campaign by finally dropping the RICO and promising a bold new initiative in the DJ lawsuit.

Doug Mowery lost the election in CLT just this past summer. Doesn't mean he can't run for prez, since the CLT turnout was poor, just means he needs to start last Tuesday, but he hasn't even announced.

Dave Ciabattoni has stated he will not run.

The only other possible east candidate is Steve Bradford, who started this union. I have no idea what his intentions are.

Is this pilot group ready for a PHX pilot or faction to run the union? They would need to pledge support for the C&BL's as they are currently written. Although they could run on the promise to change it's language after being elected. We could have an officer election and a referendum on a constitutional amendment all in one. Does such a person/persons exist in PHX? Is he electable? Would it be a step toward unification of the pilot group, or is a unification theory of the universe a more realistic goal between now and April?

Like him or hate him (literally, since many who hate him have indicated they will vote for him), Mike Cleary has the advantage for the time being and it's his election to lose.

Just sayin.

 

[Code Name V]

As soon as I get a vote, I will. If a contract is presented with the Nic I will vote yes if it is reasonable. If a representation election occurs I will probably vote against USAPA depending on the other choices. I will not support Cleary. If a coalition is built with the west to change the CBL to remove the mandate for DOH which only sets us up for a DFR, I will vote on that too.

It's becoming obvious that many of you on this forum do not want discussion, alternatives, membership votes, or anything to alter the course of delay, delay, delay. That's fine with me. But don't pretend for a minute or expect anyone else to believe that you are the voice of the majority. You have no proof of that. Speak for yourselves. Don't presume to speak for me or anyone else.

If you are even an East pilot which is doubtful, then you are in a minority but keep saying that; it really gets the west excited...

V

 

[flypg]

As soon as I get a vote, I will. If a contract is presented with the Nic I will vote yes if it is reasonable. If a representation election occurs I will probably vote against USAPA depending on the other choices. I will not support Cleary. If a coalition is built with the west to change the CBL to remove the mandate for DOH which only sets us up for a DFR, I will vote on that too.

It's becoming obvious that many of you on this forum do not want discussion, alternatives, membership votes, or anything to alter the course of delay, delay, delay. That's fine with me. But don't pretend for a minute or expect anyone else to believe that you are the voice of the majority. You have no proof of that. Speak for yourselves. Don't presume to speak for me or anyone else.

I have never said that. Try to keep up.

 

[eastcoast]

DOH is in the C&BL. That is the reason it will not get put in the contract the company will never agree to. It is that simple. You need to be a little patient. Wait until the arbitration is finished, then talk about Cleary. If this is a win, Cleary will be the best thing that ever happened to you.

I think you just don't pay any attention to what other's say. I told you since day one that many of us do not lead our lives based on what benefits us the most at a given point in time. For many like me it is a cost to benefit analysis along with our basic sense of integrity and fairness. USAPA has cost us far more than any benefit it has provided. A Kasher victory, while a LONG shot IMO, will not change my sense of integrity or fairness. I've stated my opinion. You are entitled to yours.

 

[Black Swan]

I think you just don't pay any attention to what other's say. I told you since day one that many of us do not lead our lives based on what benefits us the most at a given point in time. For many like me it is a cost to benefit analysis along with our basic sense of integrity and fairness. USAPA has cost us far more than any benefit it has provided. A Kasher victory, while a LONG shot IMO, will not change my sense of integrity or fairness. I've stated my opinion. You are entitled to yours.

I think you state you are senior, and obviously don't care for any of the junior guys. If integrity is letting the guys in your right seat with 18 yrs get put behind a new hire, then you have a warped sense of right and wrong.

 

[luvthe9]

I think you just don't pay any attention to what other's say. I told you since day one that many of us do not lead our lives based on what benefits us the most at a given point in time. For many like me it is a cost to benefit analysis along with our basic sense of integrity and fairness. USAPA has cost us far more than any benefit it has provided. A Kasher victory, while a LONG shot IMO, will not change my sense of integrity or fairness. I've stated my opinion. You are entitled to yours.

Come on son what is your seniority, man up!!!!! are you throwing your co-workers under the bus? A lot of the junoir guys thank me for supporting them, I'm a team player. USAPA is going to get some money back that ALPA gave away, hope you thank them.

 

[Pi brat]

But as I stated earlier, the best way to shut everyone up is to put a Nic inclusive contract up for a vote and see where the cards fall. That would be the simplest and truest form of democracy, and that would show beyond a reasonable doubt where the will of the collective pilot group actually is. Majority rules.

The reason that will never happen is because those in control, the ones who in my opinion are now in the minority, are afraid of the result. They claim majority rule, but they are afraid of what the majority actually want. Dictatorship in it's purest form. They want to dictate from a position of power, what we all should think, believe, and vote on. Just look at all the talking heads here claiming to speak for us all.

What would you have them put out for a vote, the Kirby? Parker has said there will be no contract until the SLI is finally settled in court.

 

[luvthe9]

If you are even an East pilot which is doubtful, then you are in a minority but keep saying that; it really gets the west excited...

V

You are so right, I think each west guy has at least 2 or 3 screen names. Definitely in the minority V. 😀

 

[Claxon]

What would you have them put out for a vote, the Kirby? Parker has said there will be no contract until the SLI is finally settled in court.

There will never be a joint contract. Even Move2Clt, if he could appear, would agree. He told me so at the fundraiser last night.

 

[Pi brat]

If a contract is presented with the Nic I will vote yes if it is reasonable.

What do you consider "resonable"? The Kirby? Is min fleet a must? Industry standard pay? Vacation? And how do we go about getting "reasonable" when the company shows no interest, and again has said, no contract will happen until we get an answer to the SLI?