US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Res Judicata]

I agree with your entire post except for this one detail. I think the court will tell them that if they collude with USAPA to modify the Nic, then they will be liable to the west if DFR II happens and if the west wins DFR II. In other words, the trigger to their liability will not be touching the Nic, but a DFR II win by the west.

I know it's semantics because the only thing that would keep you, me, or just about any west pilot from filing DFR II would be DOH with captain pay protection and furlough protection of every one of our pilots for the remainder of our careers. (Or long enough that it just won't matter. 20 years should do it.) Barring that, USAPA and the company will be sued into oblivion, and we can all retire now with a big fat damages payoff. The court will not tell the company what to do. Only make it crystal clear what consequences they face. They can touch the Nic if they want to roll the dice. I doubt the Board of Directors would allow anyone to make such a reckless decision.

So, with that real threat hanging over them, the company will have to grow a set and tell the east that Nic is the only list they will consider. Then offer a decent contract with Nic in section 22. With the Kasher loss and no where else to turn, the majority of east pilots will vote for their financial well being rather than their twisted sense of entitlement. The end result will be the same.

Frankly I don't know if the Judge MUST answer all of the 3 questions or ignore them and tell the company what you described above. Either way, I don't think it matters. The company just wants to be able to point the finger to the Federal Courthouse and somberly explain to the East why they won't touch DOH. I can't imagine they would agree to a DOH list unless the Judge gives them a crystal clear green light...free of any conceivable liability. That's not going to happen. I think the company actually DOES want a joint contract at this point and there's no way they're going to subject themselves to DFRII, Years MORE delay, Legal costs, damages, and a contract nullified by Permanent Injunction just because they don't have the balls to tell USLAPPY what everybody already knows. DOH = DOA.

 

[nic4us]

You talk as if I did this personally. I didn't. I was expressing support for a group that I feel didn't receive any...no more no less.

Driver B)

Actually, the east pilots LOS was given consideration in the Nic. Most notebly the furloughed who had been recalled.

You can find in Brucia's remarks supporting the award yet having issue with the fact that more "consideration" was not given to the recalled and the east pilots LOS.

You can also find it in Nicolau's comment regarding Brucia's statement.

Basically, consideration was given, and it turns out the fact that a 17 year east pilot being their bottom guy and/or furloughed, was the greatest supporting evidence of the West's position that the east had far more to gain, and that the east career expectation was much greater enhanced by the merger.

 

[Res Judicata]

I've been as guilty as anyone here of being a smart axx, but this is a serious question: Why do you think this will be over in April? The PHX court is under a judicial emergency(or some term) due to a shortage of judges, right? It took what, a year to get to this point? USAPA is going to fight anything coming from Addington. So why do you think it will be over in April? Is that just your opinion or that of your attorneys. Again, just wanting to hear how you came to that conclusion, not being smart or looking to give you a hard time about it. Thanks.

True that USAPA may attempt to fight the importation of Addington evidence but every indication is the Judge will allow it. You guys have a very different legal team moving fwd. and they seem to be focused on cleaning up the Mess $e$ham left you. It wouldn't surprise me if USAPA doesn't fight the importation. I won't go into detail, but I'm getting the April time frame from folks who have intimate knowledge off all the moving parts to this. West Legal, East, (new) Legal, Company Legal, and the work habits of Judge Silver. Once she starts a case, she stops everything until it's finished. Luckily, thanks to Cleary's moronic illegal job action and the accompanying Injunction, the case now has her attention. This will move very quickly after Dec. 1st and the ball will be dropped in the company's court where they will act sooner rather than later. This has gone on long enough.

 

[Res Judicata]

It hardly will be over by April win or lose this will be go to appeal... It's a long way from over.. separate ops is the answer.

By "over" I mean the legal noose will be fully clamped around USAPAs neck and their feet are fully off the ground. The majority on the East will not entertain years more abuse for a handful of angry FO's. They let you drive the ship the last several years and you guys buried it in the ground. Even if under appeal I expect the company to come up with a contract that will pass 51% and do what they can to force a vote on it. The BPR is already under tremendous pressure to get a contract. When Kasher fails and Silver hangs liability on the company and they refuse to entertain DOH, the BPR will either acquiesce to the majority or be thrown out. The AFO's will be fully unable to stop the momentum towards getting OFF LOA93 ASAP when those two pieces fall into place.

That will be by this April. The first contractual vote...NIC Inclusive...will pass 85%

 

[luvthe9]

That will be by this April. The first contractual vote...NIC Inclusive...will pass 85%

What in God's names are you smoking out there son, I'm sure you can't be that stupid to believe that. :blink: Did they tell you we are going to give you ALL are 76 and 330 flying to?

 

[fodase]

I've been as guilty as anyone here of being a smart axx, but this is a serious question: Why do you think this will be over in April? The PHX court is under a judicial emergency(or some term) due to a shortage of judges, right? It took what, a year to get to this point? USAPA is going to fight anything coming from Addington. So why do you think it will be over in April? Is that just your opinion or that of your attorneys. Again, just wanting to hear how you came to that conclusion, not being smart or looking to give you a hard time about it. Thanks.

You have got to remember the west filed paperwork with Silver (the injunction for illegal job action) showing that the company is suffering harm right now because of the east, in turn the Judge feels responsible to put a stop to this issue and give the company an answer. The time line is based on Judge Silver's past cases, she is very tough and does not allow any games to be played in her court. Odds are she will not touch the first 2 questions since they are "hypothetical" and the 9th (her bosses) said we can't know whether a non Nic is legal/illegal until it is ratified, however the third question is easily answerable with most pros saying there is only a 1 in 10 chance she could give the company immunity.

 

[Barrister]

well said A320,
and the furloughed will not go ahead of the WEST capt.. even with the DOH.
just on the list but not in the seats.

Don't ruin their illusion that a 16 year recalled guy "takes" something from them.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Res Judicata]

What in God's names are you smoking out there son, I'm sure you can't be that stupid to believe that. :blink: Did they tell you we are going to give you ALL are 76 and 330 flying to?

Ooops. I forgot. Addington is gone, DOH is right around the corner with the Industry Standard contract, Seniority is like a crew meal, the 9th gave Seham a standing ovation and a heart felt thank you on behalf of all organized labor, and the West just doesn't get it.

The facts are 100% out of synch with your world view but who cares. You waste your life how you like.

 

[USA320Pilot]

During USAPA's Discussions With The IBT the Teamsters Had Placed Dissenting Pilot Groups Into Trusteeship

Dear Subscriber,

Update for November 14, 2011

Quick Fact #102: Last year during USAPA's discussions with the IBT the Teamsters had already placed the Great Lakes, Cape Air, North American, and Gulfstream International local associations into trusteeship because the pilots disagreed with the Teamsters' actions. Gulfstream International's on-the-property pilot leadership wrote a letter advising the International Union that "there is a lack of faith that our local will do anything to improve out situation, or protect our members from vengeful management should they bring any grievances." USAPA's illegal job actions has placed every US Airways pilot in a precarious position because the Preliminary Injunction covers every individual pilot. Under these precarious circumstances are the US Airways pilot's best interests served by a union that has a documented track record of not protecting its members or one that has a long, documented record of success representing or advising every other major airline pilot group?

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[USA320Pilot]

Arbitrator stands by controversial list

Click here to read the story.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Any update on a trial date for NAUGHLER?

 

[cactusboy53]

What in God's names are you smoking out there son, I'm sure you can't be that stupid to believe that. :blink: Did they tell you we are going to give you ALL are 76 and 330 flying to?

What ever Res is smokin' isn't NEARLY as potent as the ganja you be tokin' on Luvr. You just keep making predictions and pontifications that have YET to come true. So perhaps you aren't the Red-Headed Step-Child of Lies, your just too stoned to know fantasy from reality.

Who's goin' to Sheriff Joe's Jail this week, Luvr?

 

[Pi brat]

True that USAPA may attempt to fight the importation of Addington evidence but every indication is the Judge will allow it. You guys have a very different legal team moving fwd. and they seem to be focused on cleaning up the Mess $e$ham left you. It wouldn't surprise me if USAPA doesn't fight the importation. I won't go into detail, but I'm getting the April time frame from folks who have intimate knowledge off all the moving parts to this. West Legal, East, (new) Legal, Company Legal, and the work habits of Judge Silver. Once she starts a case, she stops everything until it's finished. Luckily, thanks to Cleary's moronic illegal job action and the accompanying Injunction, the case now has her attention. This will move very quickly after Dec. 1st and the ball will be dropped in the company's court where they will act sooner rather than later. This has gone on long enough.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[luvthe9]

What ever Res is smokin' isn't NEARLY as potent as the ganja you be tokin' on Luvr. You just keep making predictions and pontifications that have YET to come true. So perhaps you aren't the Red-Headed Step-Child of Lies, your just too stoned to know fantasy from reality.

Who's goin' to Sheriff Joe's Jail this week, Luvr?

I think I'll be smoking some extra cash soon from LOA 93, how about you, I didn't think so. With that will no contract, get it. 😛

 

[Res Judicata]

I think I'll be smoking some extra cash soon from LOA 93, how about you, I didn't think so. With that will no contract, get it. 😛

That would be starkly illegal if USAPA abandoned contract negotiations...GET IT????

With such an abysmal track record in the court room, I would think USAPA wouldn't be so stupid.....but then again....