US Pilots Labor Discussion

[crazystnic]

By "over" I mean the legal noose will be fully clamped around USAPAs neck and their feet are fully off the ground. The majority on the East will not entertain years more abuse for a handful of angry FO's. They let you drive the ship the last several years and you guys buried it in the ground. Even if under appeal I expect the company to come up with a contract that will pass 51% and do what they can to force a vote on it. The BPR is already under tremendous pressure to get a contract. When Kasher fails and Silver hangs liability on the company and they refuse to entertain DOH, the BPR will either acquiesce to the majority or be thrown out. The AFO's will be fully unable to stop the momentum towards getting OFF LOA93 ASAP when those two pieces fall into place.

That will be by this April. The first contractual vote...NIC Inclusive...will pass 85%

The senior guys are mostly gone in the next 5 years.. Many of them don't expect to get a big raise and have a big contract before that time, most of them understand that this wont be over before they leave... Let's just wait and see what LOA 93 has for an outcome.. I do feel for and understand they wish things were different in fact many of us wish things were different.. This was a very booming place in late 1999 early 2000.... things would of been mightly different had 911 not happened, but the senior guys have been mostly in the left seat earning good money since 1982-1985 range... I honestly think it's the right seaters that deserve a break.. It's not angry FO's it's just been a good wait for the 40 percent raise.

 

[USA320Pilot]

During USAPA's Discussions With The IBT the Teamsters Had Placed Dissenting Pilot Groups Into Trusteeship

Dear Subscriber,

Update for November 14, 2011

Quick Fact #102: Last year during USAPA's discussions with the IBT the Teamsters had already placed the Great Lakes, Cape Air, North American, and Gulfstream International local associations into trusteeship because the pilots disagreed with the Teamsters' actions. Gulfstream International's on-the-property pilot leadership wrote a letter advising the International Union that "there is a lack of faith that our local will do anything to improve out situation, or protect our members from vengeful management should they bring any grievances." USAPA's illegal job actions has placed every US Airways pilot in a precarious position because the Preliminary Injunction covers every individual pilot. Under these precarious circumstances are the US Airways pilot's best interests served by a union that has a documented track record of not protecting its members or one that has a long, documented record of success representing or advising every other major airline pilot group?

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After reading this update why would anybody support the IBT, which does not represent a single legacy passenger commercial airline?

 

[Hate2fly]

Not any nonsense there. They never say USAPA is bankrupt either. The Non-secret call was about the vice president sleeping and now living with an employee of the law firm then threatening the senior partner. Not something you want to talk about until confirmed. He admitted it and claims there was no conflict of interest. Right....

So what is next.......a new Compass Correction followed by an AOL update?

Hate

 

[Pi brat]

Is there any pilot that knows or can pass the word about the passing of George Lintala?
Hello Men,
 

Hey Jamie,

Thanks for putting this out. I have a couple of west contacts that may know about this. I will try to reach them tomorrow and call you tomorrow afternoon.

 

[luvthe9]

Words cannot describe this update and I'm almost speechless. Talk about corruption and an unprofessional organization. Pick a topic of failure and embarrassment: District Court of North Carolina Order against USAPA, Legal Firms Representing USAPA, Legal -- October, LOA 93,......

Just go away, you are the senior capt. of spin, you are a joke to all of us. Everyone just laughs at you, no one takes you seriously, we suggest you spend more time learning to fly.

 

[luvthe9]

So what is next.......a new Compass Correction followed by an AOL update?

Hate

All they are doing is digging themselves into a deeper hole.

 

[Res Judicata]

All they are doing is digging themselves into a deeper hole.

 

[noDOH4u]

I went to as many ALPA meetings as I could. Went to the Merger Committee presentation in the CLT Training Center very early in the process before it was drygulched.

The MEC meeting having to do with the recall was in PHL as best I remember and yes, I did let my disdain for what they were doing be known.

I expressed my views on straight DOH to the Merger committee in CLT. One member told me that if they walked into the arbitration with a DOH proposal, they would be "laughed out of court"...his exact words.

I did not submit any resolutions. By the time it played out, most of the MEC didn't care what the consequences were. The merger council told them...the path you have chosen has NO middle ground, you will either win big or lose big. The rest is history.

Does this answer your questions? I am just one vote. There are about 500 or so of us that vote this way. We don't exactly have any pull with the BPR.

None of this really matters anyway. The courts will decide what happens next and then the appeals start no matter which way it goes. IMO, this pilot group cannot be integrated successfully at this point.

Driver <_<

I thank you for your candor. The part I find most interesting is about the big win or big lose. This is a point that some here have denied over and over again. Obviously the MEC thought that DOH was not necessarily the most fair, but the biggest potential win. No middle ground as you say. It's really a shame that you didn't have better leadership and cohesiveness over the years. Sounds like your US-ALPA was as dysfunctional as USAPA's BPR.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Now I know you're in la-la land...

I know it does not comply with your narrative but, it actually is true. Your continued ignorance in this matter is somewhat silly.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

So I'd be suspect even if USAPA did offer career seat protection to west pilots because how that was implemented could take it away.

Yes, experience is what determines what happens. I was appalled at what happened but wrote it off to your (the PI) merger chairperson, an idiot. I would hope the east would use their experience to keep something like that from happening again.

 

[Reed Richards]

Obviously the MEC thought that DOH was not necessarily the most fair, but the biggest potential win. No middle ground as you say. It's really a shame that you didn't have better leadership and cohesiveness over the years. Sounds like your US-ALPA was as dysfunctional as USAPA's BPR.

I was there. DOH was indeed considered the "most fair." History supports that, despite the hiccup in merging the EAL Shuttle. But there is not enough bandwidth worth my time or yours to delve into that small (Nic again) aberration. I ask any on this forum from the East to tell me they would have stood front and center and thrown our furloughed under the bus, after all that was given, to ease the process. I was not willing. I dare a single pilot by name to email me that he or she was, knowing I will not keep said name a secret. I dare you.

Fact is the West MEC (and at least initially to their credit) knew the worst they could ever do was DOH, and were damn the torpedoes ahead to get to arbitration. Here we are, and at this time so far removed from what got us here, I question (other than stroking all our egos, including mine) what value that introspection has. Who saved who, who had the best position in the arbitration arguments...simply does not matter now.

DOH with good conditions, restrictions, and fences could still work. U/PSA went straight DOH without a whimper. In the U/PI merger one side held out for straight DOH and won. The other side was so hell bent on slotting they never bothered to get good conditions and restrictions (as Jim has pointed out) and only a few wide body C/Os were protected. I was a rusthead, and could not believe C/O upgrades were not protected on the PI side. Still don't get that one..and to be honest they were deserved. But the backstop was DOH, and it took a couple of decades for that to work out. This fiasco will be resolved in 4 or 5 more years absent any agreement, already adding to the 5 years wasted.

Been around the pattern too many times to buy the story all mergers are done. I will hold out for DOH come hell or high water. It is the only possible protection I have in the next merger

For the hundredth time...absent a breakthrough, the next M&A will involve an unmerged U/AWA. I would rather go into that without a guy or gal 11 years my junior starting out ahead of me, and my own Scope.

RR

 

[Injunction junction]

Just go away, you are the senior capt. of spin, you are a joke to all of us. Everyone just laughs at you, no one takes you seriously, we suggest you spend more time learning to fly.

Watching you twist yourself into a knot is almost as much fun and watching usloppy fail time and time again. Attacking one of your own is so typical of what the world has come to know about useast pilots, clowns to the very end. The only one who has dug a hole is Lee Seham and thats the hole that you paid him to put you in.

Injunction

 

[BoeingBoy]

I know it does not comply with your narrative but, it actually is true. Your continued ignorance in this matter is somewhat silly.

Now that's funny. You make assumptions based on nothing but what you want to believe and call someone with a front row seat who saw it all happening firsthand ignorant. You certainly are good for a laugh...

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

In the U/PI merger one side held out for straight DOH and won. The other side was so hell bent on slotting they never bothered to get good conditions and restrictions (as Jim has pointed out) and only a few wide body C/Os were protected.

How you got that out of what I said is beyond me. Go back and look at the pages of C&R's in the Kagel award - all to protect the PI pilots. The problem wasn't lack of C&R's, it was the US MC and Resource Planning implementation of those C&R's that voided most of the protection that they were supposed to give. I could fill at least two pages of this forum with examples, but it'd be wasted effort - those like you and clubbie would believe what you want anyway.

I was a rusthead, and could not believe C/O upgrades were not protected on the PI side.

So you would have supported protection for non-attrition based upgrades for PI pilots? After gladly taking the PI 737-400 deliveries with their accompanying upgrades? Remember the "phantom bids" that awarded "phantom" upgrades to PI pilots during 1989 because of the 734's going north? By the time the groups integrated on 1/1/1990, one - yes one - PI pilot held one of those "phantom" bids. Even then, one of your northern pals told me to my face how unfair the "phantom" bids were since they produced PI captains who didn't deserve it. It was like the US pilots had paid for those 734's out of their own pocket so owned the upgrades.

You're as funny as clubbie.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

I thank you for your candor. The part I find most interesting is about the big win or big lose. This is a point that some here have denied over and over again. Obviously the MEC thought that DOH was not necessarily the most fair, but the biggest potential win. No middle ground as you say. It's really a shame that you didn't have better leadership and cohesiveness over the years. Sounds like your US-ALPA was as dysfunctional as USAPA's BPR.

It had NOTHING to do with disadvantaging the West pilots. It had nothing to do with fairness. It had everything to do with giving in to a very vocal minority of the pilot group that demanded it and also avoiding the perception of weakness. There was NEVER some deep dark motive to intentionally hurt the West. It was more about what we "deserved" giving what we had been through. It didn't get personal until later.

That is my understanding from those that were there.

Driver B)