US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mikey60]

Hey traitor, why don't you just move west and join their ranks. Maybe then you can feel vilified and honorable and teach the rest of us a lesson of ethics by putting your money where your mouth is. In the meantime why don't you enlighten us and tell us why it is so honorable that the westies take our attrition? I'll but you get a lot of support in your cockpits unless you dummy up.

V

I second that move traitor since there are hundreds of westies out there that would love to change sides with you.

 

[Injunction junction]

Logic would say that, but because the company is now involved it changes the fact set that led to the 9th's decision. Although not great, there is a chance one of these questions will be answered ( maybe one of the more knowledgeable west guys can give details on why it's different question now)



Yep, in fact usapa's the new law firm briefed the bpr that there is virtually no chance the company will be given immunity, guaranteeing the Nic. or loa 93, usapa's choice.

Its not. The biggest question is the immunity question. Absent that immunity you can bet Lcc will not want to gamble on being sued by the west. This has even more bite if there is any truth at all to the rumor of another merger. No lender will put up money if there is a major law suit pending.

Injunction

 

[icehead]

You know who I am and where I work.

Feel free to identify yourself anytime you want.

I do remember a conversation like that but can't put a face to it.

You are deceiving yourself if you think it's ok to renege on a mutually agreed upon arbitration or if you think that four arbitrators in a row got it wrong.

The process was mutually agreed to. The solution was not. No one reneged on anything. You are mistaken and have been for quite some time. The 9th makes it abundantly clear that ratification is required to codify a process or a contract. Nothing new, nothing ratified. You seem to have personal reasons for ignoring this most basic of legal principles.

 

[Captain Underpants]

Yes, and the silence to your rebuttal question tells the world that the Easties know they're trying to get away with a sham.

aqua,

IMHO I don't think the East pilots will have a problem with a Wye River II type mediated negotiation as long as the objectives are to end the seniority dispute, accelerate contract negotiations, and end costly litigation which all would benefit the pilot group as a whole. I don't think the company or the court would have any objections to compromise/settlement talks either.

And yes you can be sure USAPA will follow their constitutional mandate and bylaws:

To maintain uniform principles of seniority based on date of hire and the perpetuation thereof, with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot’s un-merged career expectations.

I agree with Jim that the negotiations will focus on what "reasonable" C&R's would it take to get 51% of the West pilots to accept by vote a DOH list. Rational West pilots will vote for riding East attrition to accelerated upgrades and higher paying Captain and widebody positions instead of the indefinite stagnation and uncertain litigation of chasing Nic. Integration only benefits West pilots so it makes no difference to East pilots whether the West agrees to any particular seniority list or not.

You can say it has to be Nic but until Congress appoints you King Decider of Seniority Lists your path to Nic is a dead end.

underpants

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Hey Swan. All of your yamering about what the ninth said. Your president just cut your legs out from under you.



You keep saying that the ninth told you usapa could bargain for something other than the nicolau. That usapa did not have to use the Nicolau.

Read this carefully. Cleary's own words. It may or MAY NOT decide if usapa has the authority to negotiate something other than the Nicolau. Finally. A lawyer that convinced usapa what the ninth really said. Or the comm chair bailing off the sinking ship someone else could not spin it to fit your fantasy.

Cleary just told you that it may HAVE to be Nicolau and is now looking for a way out. And the usapa walls come tumbling down. Damn that has got to sting for you guys. A loss from Kasher and I am going to worry about all of you. Might be more than you guys can handle.

What did I tell you guys a few days ago?

The west will NOT compromise, negotiate, mediate, bargain, change a comma in the Nicolau award. You guys are going to take it whole, as is. 4 years of wasted time and money is going to be a bitter pill to swallow for you guys.

Nothing like the cold hard sting of being proven wrong for the umpteenth time. I think Swan and MM are just masochists, they love to lose and to be disgraced, over and over and over and over and over and over.... 😛

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Nothing like the cold hard sting of being proven wrong for the umpteenth time. I think Swan and MM are just masochists, they love to lose and to be disgraced, over and over and over and over and over and over.... 😛

Proven wrong about what?, I think your a wannabee that has probably never accomplished anything, This game my friend is hardly over anyone, with an elementary education or HP management could see it, heck STEVIE WONDER can, but hey, what alludes you is the obvious, the game is not over till the final second has run off the clock, only morons gloat of a halftime lead in a zero score game!

 

[mikey60]

Amazing how I'm gone for four days and I come back to an east on east exchange.

Eastcoast represents a big majority of east Capt who are ready to hang this up. Most are just waiting for LOA93 to come out officially before pulling the trigger, but they're fed up now.

Our PHX rep Eric F. Is receiving more phone calls from east Captains than the easy reps are? Why? They're venting to him about how they've had it with Cleary. They've told Eric the want a contract now and they'll take the Nic.

Eastcoast is not atypical. I believe he represents the silent majority.

Breeze lacked conviction in his beliefs and thus had to remove himself from these boards. He cried long and hard enough to the mods to put me in a time out for four days, but that was a sacrifice I was will to make for this forum.

He's gone now and more easties are starting to figure it out here. The PMs I've gotten over the past two days prove that those like crazy are losing support faster than they can imagine.

And the circus at USAPA HQ continues minus Theur. He found his exit and bailed on his sinking ship.

And in response, Cleary raised his monthly stipend.

What cloud are you on? If people from the east are going to retire what advantage is it to wait for LOA 93? Please tell me since I have less than 2yrs in this toilet ...hopefully much less.. oh by the way I bet you could count on you hand the number of calls your rep has received .

 

[HPearlyretiree]

The process was mutually agreed to. The solution was not. No one reneged on anything. You are mistaken and have been for quite some time. The 9th makes it abundantly clear that ratification is required to codify a process or a contract. Nothing new, nothing ratified. You seem to have personal reasons for ignoring this most basic of legal principles.

But, you can't escape binding arbitration by forming a new union. Wait..you will see. Real men stick to their agreements, why is that so hard for the East to figure out?

 

[BoeingBoy]

aqua,

IMHO I don't think the East pilots will have a problem with a Wye River II type mediated negotiation as long as the objectives are to end the seniority dispute, accelerate contract negotiations, and end costly litigation which all would benefit the pilot group as a whole.

Why should the east pilots have a problem? After all:

And yes you can be sure USAPA will follow their constitutional mandate and bylaws:

To maintain uniform principles of seniority based on date of hire and the perpetuation thereof, with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot’s un-merged career expectations.

In other words, the east will get what they want - a DOH list. And the west gets? "Reasonable" C&R's with "reasonable" decided by USAPA and presumably a few west pilots picked by USAPA. The 51% of west voting to ratify a contract is a silly claim - all USAPA and the east want is enough west votes to ratify. With a DOH contract, the east might be able to ratify without a single west vote. After all, 51% of west voting to ratify won't guarantee no DFR suit any more than 1 west vote.

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Hey Swan. All of your yamering about what the ninth said. Your president just cut your legs out from under you.



You keep saying that the ninth told you usapa could bargain for something other than the nicolau. That usapa did not have to use the Nicolau.

Read this carefully. Cleary's own words. It may or MAY NOT decide if usapa has the authority to negotiate something other than the Nicolau. Finally. A lawyer that convinced usapa what the ninth really said. Or the comm chair bailing off the sinking ship someone else could not spin it to fit your fantasy.

Cleary just told you that it may HAVE to be Nicolau and is now looking for a way out. And the usapa walls come tumbling down. Damn that has got to sting for you guys. A loss from Kasher and I am going to worry about all of you. Might be more than you guys can handle.

What did I tell you guys a few days ago?

The west will NOT compromise, negotiate, mediate, bargain, change a comma in the Nicolau award. You guys are going to take it whole, as is. 4 years of wasted time and money is going to be a bitter pill to swallow for you guys.

WOW you have more WETDREAMS on this weboard than humanly possible,You told us a few days ago he abandon our own CBL's, CLEARY is right about one thing "it may or may not decide if USAPAhas the authority to negotiate something other than the NIC" BUT THE NINTH DOES!

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Proven wrong about what?, I think your a wannabee that has probably never accomplished anything, This game my friend is hardly over anyone, with an elementary education or HP management could see it, heck STEVIE WONDER can, but hey, what alludes you is the obvious, the game is not over till the final second has run off the clock, only morons gloat of a halftime lead in a zero score game!

Not a wannabe, just an HR Professional who knows the law and knows that you guys are so full of baloney its hilarious. When were you ever right? Seriously, every time you predict something, the opposite happens. Enjoy the Nic and enjoy LOA 93. You certainly deserve it.

LOL

 

[Injunction junction]

The process was mutually agreed to. The solution was not. No one reneged on anything. You are mistaken and have been for quite some time. The 9th makes it abundantly clear that ratification is required to codify a process or a contract. Nothing new, nothing ratified. You seem to have personal reasons for ignoring this most basic of legal principles.

What??? The process was agreed but the solution was not? That makes no sense what so ever and its more double talk than anything else. The agreement Ice was to proceed to arbitration and abide by the results. I have heard it all from the east since that award was handed down. I have heard the fairness argument. I have heard "the arbitration was just a proposal" argument and that one was by far the funniest. Now you come here and state the solution was not agreed to. Well my good man that would mean that the process itself was not agreed to as well, because the solution was part of the PROCESS.

The most basic of legal principle is that arbitration was the chosen and agreed upon method. The east HAS infact reneged on that as our sitting here today is evident of that fact.

Regards

Injunction

 

[BoeingBoy]

only morons gloat of a halftime lead in a zero score game!

Which explains all the gloating you've been doing...

Jim

 

[Injunction junction]

Proven wrong about what?, I think your a wannabee that has probably never accomplished anything, This game my friend is hardly over anyone, with an elementary education or HP management could see it, heck STEVIE WONDER can, but hey, what alludes you is the obvious, the game is not over till the final second has run off the clock, only morons gloat of a halftime lead in a zero score game!

Your analogy resembles an individual that has placed a $50.00 on both teams to win. The zero score at the end means what?? YOU LOSE!!

One day there will be hope for you.

Injunction

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Not a wannabe, just an HR Professional who knows the law and knows that you guys are so full of baloney its hilarious. When were you ever right? Seriously, every time you predict something, the opposite happens. Enjoy the Nic and enjoy LOA 93. You certainly deserve it.

LOL

HR , what a jokebook, explaining health benefits etc, a joke your parents must have been so proud! What NIC, oh 93 thank you we will, You aint been right yet pal your so called crack DUI mngmnt team is the laughing stock of wall street, FAILED MERGER ATTEMPTS YEA YOU DUI CLUB ROCK! Get to work 24mos that 1.14 bil loan is due!