US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Elevation]

USAPA could always go back and ask George Nicolau if he would like to reconsider his decision. He alone retains sole jurisdiction over the HP/US pilot seniority integration. He's getting up there in age so they better move quick before tha door closes too. Best of luck with that.

Your wish has come true Nicolau speaks! Check out his link Enjoy LOL

 

[Res Judicata]

Mike Cleary can shove his offer of "mediation" up his bi-polar ass. Forget it. The whole plea reeks of desperation. It's the clearest sign yet that USAPA knows they're doomed. Nobody out west is crying for an industry standard contract...we have ALREADY have one. The sobbing from the East is getting embarrassing. Nic. Or nothing. So clear even an East pilot should understand.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Your analogy resembles an individual that has placed a $50.00 on both teams to win. The zero score at the end means what?? YOU LOSE!!

One day there will be hope for you.

Injunction

Your reading interpretation is just like HP management!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Your wish has come true Nicolau speaks! Check out his link Enjoy LOL

But the NAUGHLER CASE HASN'T!

 

[HPearlyretiree]

HR , what a jokebook, explaining health benefits etc, a joke your parents must have been so proud! What NIC, oh 93 thank you we will, You aint been right yet pal your so called crack DUI mngmnt team is the laughing stock of wall street, FAILED MERGER ATTEMPTS YEA YOU DUI CLUB ROCK! Get to work 24mos that 1.14 bil loan is due!

Wow, big pilot boy is so defensive. You lose your job, you have no skills, you will be selling lumber at Lowe's.

Every company in the US has HR, how many companies need bitter old entitlement union pilots with zero skills outside of a cockpit?



Uh, Biff, I think you missed a spot on my car where you forgot to rub the wax in...

 

[icehead]

But, you can't escape binding arbitration by forming a new union. Wait..you will see. Real men stick to their agreements, why is that so hard for the East to figure out?

I have no idea how this will play out. You apparently do. I didn't realize a man was deemed a lessor man for not agreeing to perceived onerous decisions. Real men play baseball and real men hold up banks. I thought all men were real...

 

[aquagreen73s]

My non-lawyers version is that question 1 and 2 are off the table. Whether the 9th got it right or wrong, their ruling on ripeness is precedent for Silver so if she says yes to either of those she's breaking with precedent and effectively over-ruling the 9th and saying that the DFR case is both ripe and the merits adjudicated. Question 3 is the oddball and I see little reason for her to give the company a get out of jail free card.

Jim

I think that's a fair assessment except for one twist; this is a contract case where the company asks the court to determine their liability if they use or do not use the Nicolau. Liability turns on USAPA's DFR and as you say, the DFR is the West pilots' complaint that can't be made until there is a ratified contract. However, I *think* she could answer Claim I in the reverse: the company would not be liable if they insist upon the contractually agreed to method to integrate seniority which is the Nicolau. THere's ample case law that says either the union or the company can stand on the contract and not violate the RLA. That's not exactly what the company is after, but it's probably the most Judge Silver can do given the 9th's ruling in Addington.

 

[doh nogo]

We all recognize that our pilot group has so far been unable to bridge our internal differences regarding the best way to address our collective seniority concerns.

I am prepared to embrace it because I know that tackling this festering, longstanding, and seemingly impossible problem head-on is the only way for us -- all of us -- to move forward.

Every pilot knows that it is our collective failure to find a resolution to this issue that prevents us from moving forward.

We cannot be effective unless we are able to work together.

There is no magic solution.

Six years have passed since the merger was announced and there has been no resolution.

Likewise, litigation is not the answer.

Collectively we have spent too much on legal battles

I have proposed to the Board of Pilot Representatives, and the BPR (with the Phoenix Representatives recusing themselves) has agreed, to direct our legal representatives in the Phoenix Declaratory Judgment to ask the Court to urge the parties -- the West Pilots and USAPA -- to enter into a process of mediation aimed at producing a mutually agreeable integrated seniority list.

Captain Mike Cleary
President "

So Cleary is starting to look for ways to back pedal. This should be a wake up call for the east. Even your Fuhrer is looking for a way out of the corner he led you into.

The funny thing is that now he talks about putting it all behind us, after all he and his henchmen have tried to pull. As if he actually believes any of us will join some scheme of... wait for it... MEDIATION, non-binding of course, to help him save face. No sir. The only way out, the only way to get this behind us, is a full public apology to the Cactus 18, those accused of identity theft, acceptance of the original BINDING arbitration, and an industry standard contract.

By the way Mike, we too are quite confident of the legal outcome of our position.

You guys wanted to go all in from the start. Now you've got it! Pound sand Mike.

 

[BoeingBoy]

That's not exactly what the company is after, but it's probably the most Judge Silver can do given the 9th's ruling in Addington.

That's true. I was just looking at the questions that the company put in front of Silver. She obviously doesn't have to answer any of those specific questions, just as she could say "no immunity" even though the three questions asked for a ruling of immunity.

Jim

 

[Injunction junction]

Your reading interpretation is just like HP management!

I am trying my level best to keep you from embarrassing yourself but you on the other hand are doing any and everything to continue to make a complete fool of yourself.

Injunction

 

[aquagreen73s]

That's true. I was just looking at the questions that the company put in front of Silver. She obviously doesn't have to answer any of those specific questions, just as she could say "no immunity" even though the three questions asked for a ruling of immunity.

Jim

Yup. No answer is certainly a possibility.

 

[cleardirect]

The process was mutually agreed to. The solution was not. No one reneged on anything. You are mistaken and have been for quite some time. The 9th makes it abundantly clear that ratification is required to codify a process or a contract. Nothing new, nothing ratified. You seem to have personal reasons for ignoring this most basic of legal principles.

That is one of the most ill informed comments ever. The solution is never agreed to before arbitration. Otherwise why would you go to arbitration if you knew the outcome?

Answer this. What is the outcome of the LOA 93 arbitration? Did you agree to the outcome already or just the process?

Way to change the subject. No one has questioned ratification. The issue is usapa has been telling the members that the ninth said they don't have to use the Nicolau. Cleary just told you it very well may have to be the Nicolau. usapa is caving. Arbitration is the process. Nicolau is the solution.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Answer this. What is the outcome of the LOA 93 arbitration? Did you agree to the outcome already or just the process?

I know where you can find the LOA93 result - it's in the same desk drawer where $eham's lawsuit was sitting for the past 6 weeks and nobody outside of Mowery and Cleary knew about it.

 

[cleardirect]

But the NAUGHLER CASE HASN'T!

The Naughler case is dead. How many times do I have to tell you that?

 

[eastcoast]

you didn't build this place, you just got lucky enough to get hired a few years ahead

You were the one trying to play the scorekeeping game by telling us all about the "ultimate sacrifice," as if one person's sacrifice is more than another's just because you say so.

And if you think getting hired at USAir was a lucky thing, then that would explain your wildly inflated expectations. We all came here for one reason or another, and all stayed here for more of those reasons. It is what it is, but lucky is not one of the words I'd use to describe it.

And from Cleary's latest update you might start to see that I am not the only one keeping my thoughts to myself in the crew room. He knows very well that many of us are tired of the BS.