US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Typical WEST mentallity the title of the articlle is, written by,,,,,,Arbitration agreements aren't always binding!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Reading palms too??? You sure seem to know a lot about what people will and will not do. Mind reader, sooth sayer...what other talents do you have?


Driver B)

If you follow my posts at all you would know that I very quickly and at least somewhat humbly acknowledge when I have made an error or misstatement that is caught by another poster. It happened last night in fact on a different thread where I posted ERISA information about fiduciary responsibilities for a pension plan instead of the medical insurance plan. As soon as the error was pointed out I went back and posted the correct excerpt from the DOL website. My facts were still correct, but I posted the wrong section of the ERISA Q&A and fixed it within an hour of the original post. So, when I'm wrong I accept it and try to make things right going forward.

With all that said I tend to think I am right far more often than I'm wrong with the logic and reasoning I use to project potential future outcomes. I said that ripeness was a real concern going into the Ninth with DFR I and that was the issue they had with the case. I didn't like or agree with them but I said it was a real concern when many others on the west didn't think ripeness was an issue. I also predicted that Silver would take the DJ case and reject USAPA's MTD because the Company had a ripe case and their prayer for relief was a matter for the court to decide. I recall many west posters claiming that the DJ would get thrown out just like the east did, but I went against the grain and was proven right once again. I stated that the Addington class would be accepted by Silver and she did that too. I stated that Management had an iron clad case of illegal work action against USAPA and that it would result in an injunction by judge Conrad. Yep, that happened too. I stated about a month before it was official that $eham had been removed as GC by USAPA based on logically putting the pieces together. One poster asked how I knew that, which of course I didn't know but I knew it was the most likely outcome base on what I read. I called Black Swan on his the company will be split up in a matter of days back in June and we all know where that is.

Now I have stated against many other west posters opinions that Silver will take option 1 and declare a non-NIC list to be a DFR. If I'm proven right then my track record will be nearly spotless on all of this. If not, then I will have my first major blemish in making logical conclusions about these matters of fact and law. I'm okay if it doesn't turn out the way I believe, but I call them like I see them and this is what I expect to be the most likely outcome. Feel free to come back and congratulate me if I'm proven right or rake me over the coals if I got this one wrong.

 

[Beancounter]

bean counter,
thanks for 1st reasonable west statement I've read in way too long!
I think the relative junior at both pre merged groups stand to gain or lose the most on any final decision. We all know the Nic east-west opinions. Keep in mind that I expect my current cba to fairly represent the East junior as well as the west junior. IMO if Nic was implemented by Usapa then the junior east have an equally valid argument with Dfr. So round and round we go!
Therefore, I as well hope the 2 never integrate and let the chips fall where they may.
fa

Thanks, I think you'll find good guys and jerks on both sides. I'm sure you've probably been verbally attacked on these boards by westies, just like I've been attacked by easties. In person I've never gotten a mouthful from a pilot only the silent treatment, could be because I'm a big guy, I don't know. Flying together though the silent treatment could make for an unsafe cockpit. Hopefully there will be a long simmer down period before we all start flying together. Clear skies and good tail winds.

 

[Move2CLT]

. IMO if Nic was implemented by Usapa then the junior east have an equally valid argument with Dfr.

Wow! Not even close.

You're going to sue USAPA because it Implemented a federally arbitrated list? That's your argument?

Good luck with that dream.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Now I have stated against many other west posters opinions that Silver will take option 1 and declare a non-NIC list to be a DFR. If I'm proven right then my track record will be nearly spotless on all of this. If not, then I will have my first major blemish in making logical conclusions about these matters of fact and law. I'm okay if it doesn't turn out the way I believe, but I call them like I see them and this is what I expect to be the most likely outcome. Feel free to come back and congratulate me if I'm proven right or rake me over the coals if I got this one wrong.

Are you going to the courtroom on Dec. 1st Calloway?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Are you going to the courtroom on Dec. 1st Calloway?

It's not in the cards for me to be there but I will be looking forward to reading what all goes on as soon as it becomes available.

 

[Reed Richards]

You're going to sue USAPA because it Implemented a federally arbitrated list? That's your argument?

Move, you know better. There was no "federal arbitration" going on with the Nic. It was a hired gun employed by our old and long gone bargaining agent in a failed and dead process. If you want to see Federal Arbitration, look to our loss on LOA 93. Then you will see REAL final and binding. There will be no lawsuits or court arguments going forward after the award, barring graft or something similar.

Since my time to participate here is getting more and more limited (political workload is growing) I will address a couple of other recurring items out of context to your post.

As to the initial RICO, the sending of feces, not paying dues/fees, and blocking of the telephones had to stop. Darn near shut the organization down. I have no comment on the follow up actions, other than to say one charged party avoided the whole matter by a simple statement of regret that he was "involved." Nothing really public, nothing more required. Those get helped that help themselves. His biggest problem was dealing with the other morons (who also had to answer to their family about stupid prank acts and legal bills) Apparently he was persona non grata for a while..even lying to his pals about what he did to sidestep the suit(s).

You were correct in pointing out Judge Silver's regret at being saddled with the DJ. After all, where was the Company with all this early on in Addington?..they had an opening. I don't get all the hoopla on the upcoming hearing. My understanding it is a case scheduling meeting. Not even an outhouse lawyer, but won't they just be setting guidelines for testimony/depositions, evidence, court dates, and the like? Based on the Addington schedule, seems like a real bench trial is late Spring. I am asking you, not sure.

RR

 

[Move2CLT]

Move, you know better. There was no "federal arbitration" going on with the Nic. It was a hired gun employed by our old and long gone bargaining agent in a failed and dead process. If you want to see Federal Arbitration, look to our loss on LOA 93. Then you will see REAL final and binding. There will be no lawsuits or court arguments going forward after the award, barring graft or something similar.

Since my time to participate here is getting more and more limited (political workload is growing) I will address a couple of other recurring items out of context to your post.

As to the initial RICO, the sending of feces, not paying dues/fees, and blocking of the telephones had to stop. Darn near shut the organization down. I have no comment on the follow up actions, other than to say one charged party avoided the whole matter by a simple statement of regret that he was "involved." Nothing really public, nothing more required. Those get helped that help themselves. His biggest problem was dealing with the other morons (who also had to answer to their family about stupid prank acts and legal bills) Apparently he was persona non grata for a while..even lying to his pals about what he did to sidestep the suit(s).

You were correct in pointing out Judge Silver's regret at being saddled with the DJ. After all, where was the Company with all this early on in Addington?..they had an opening. I don't get all the hoopla on the upcoming hearing. My understanding it is a case scheduling meeting. Not even an outhouse lawyer, but won't they just be setting guidelines for testimony/depositions, evidence, court dates, and the like? Based on the Addington schedule, seems like a real bench trial is late Spring. I am asking you, not sure.

RR

Federal arbitrator mean federally arbitrated. Arbitration did occur. It was agreed to. And it's there. USAPA inherited it and it's going nowhere. If your argument held try, we would never have gotten as far as we did defending the Nicolau.

I'm curious as to why the alleged feces was never mentioned in the suit. Or was it?

And as for the hearing, much will be set here. You're correct about guidelines, evidence, etc, but a good look at the case can be had by what Silver does and doesn't allow. It might not even make it past this hearing to a trial.

I've heard that once Silver starts something, it moves fast. Your trial date might be pretty accurate.

 

[Reed Richards]

I'm curious as to why the alleged feces was never mentioned in the suit. Or was it?

Never said it was. But it happend.

Thanks for your opinon on the hearing content. I have no life experinece to say otherwise.

RR

 

[Move2CLT]

Never said it was. But it happend.

RR

And you know this how? Was it sent by a west pilot or an east pilot pretending to be someone else. You guys do play that game after all.

And why wouldn't something like that be submitted?

 

[Reed Richards]

And you know this how? Was it sent by a west pilot or an east pilot pretending to be someone else. You guys do play that game after all.

And why wouldn't something like that be submitted?

My edit passed your post.

You and the Kannapolis NC Postal inspector can have that discussion over beers someday, if you want. It is a good story with protected evidence that just might be told someday, if necessary. Obviously not in a PHX courtroom.

RR

 

[Beancounter]

Move, you know better. There was no "federal arbitration" going on with the Nic. It was a hired gun employed by our old and long gone bargaining agent in a failed and dead process. If you want to see Federal Arbitration, look to our loss on LOA 93. Then you will see REAL final and binding. There will be no lawsuits or court arguments going forward after the award, barring graft or something similar.

RR

Not trying to be a smart@ss. Was wondering why you think the LOA 93 will fail? Am out of the loop.

 

[Move2CLT]

My edit passed your post.

You and the Kannapolis NC Postal inspector can have that discussion over beers someday, if you want. It is a good story with protected evidence that just might be told someday, if necessary. Obviously not in a PHX courtroom.

RR

Why evidence like this was saved is curious. You'd think thisnisnthe first thing they'd show the judge.

And with the RICO dead, I don't know why he'd be holding on to it.

Like I said, for all you know, and eastie could have sent it. It wasn't submitted because there was no proof as to where actually sent it.

For all you know, it may have been an eastie trying to build the RICO case against the west.

My hunch is that's the case as the poop was never entered into evidence.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You and the Kannapolis NC Postal inspector can have that discussion over beers someday, if you want. It is a good story with protected evidence that just might be told someday, if necessary.

This is getting good...

Mail to a Charlotte address, a city with it's own Postal Inspector's Office, that involves the Kannapolis Postal Inspector - perhaps mailed from Kannapolis???

"Protected evidence" with a USPS official to testify - but not included in the charges filed with the court (but posting on a webboard was included as a "crime"...).

This seems to be painting a picture of something...maybe that the story contains more feces than the mailing...

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

This is getting good...

Mail to a Charlotte address, a city with it's own Postal Inspector's Office, that involves the Kannapolis Postal Inspector - perhaps mailed from Kannapolis???

"Protected evidence" with a USPS official to testify - but not included in the charges filed with the court (but posting on a webboard was included as a "crime"...).

This seems to be painting a picture of something...maybe that the story contains more feces than the mailing...

Jim

Thank you Jim. I was trying to lead RR in that direction. I've learned when the east actually catch themselves, things tend to stick better.