US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Yikes. Boy have I missed a lot!!

Move is now bringing up our accident record, and naming names. And attacking the moderator! Others think the scheduling hearing with Judge Silver will deliver the Holy Grail of the NIC to a vote, all of us working under NIC by April. Wow. And now BB is saying the Ninth said the West had a valid DFR, but only that is was not ripe. I knew that turkey drug made everyone prone to sleep in front of the big game, but had no idea it had Peyote in it!

The scheduling hearing will come and go. Judge Silver may or may not tip her hand with questions or statements..but she will eventually follow the law, even it takes another trip to Wake's woodshed at the Ninth to move thing along correctly. No disrespect meant to the fine Judge at all, but it happens to the best of them in the desert.

I find Cleary's hookup with Eric much more interesting forum fodder, and not because who outed who...obvious that was intended. Anyone know what they were wearing, or what they ordered at the restaurant? Pictures, anyone?

If I were a furloughee on the West right now, I would be fishing (and not cutting bait.) This is not going to be pretty. Anyone follow the events of TA 9 and its follow up grievance? 30 per month (minimum) on the East starting very soon, forever. Anyone going to pass on that recall? We shall see, but anyone on the street should be praying for a combined list, yesterday.

Tell you what, as I usually do (and probably not soon enough) I will go silent until the recounting of events in Judge Silver's court are presented by both sides. Fork in the road guys, but the West seems to have one tire flat and is (again) veering only one way.

RR

The West is the one with a flat tire? Seriously?

And no mention of what Mikey brought up?

And attacking the mods? Whatever drama queen.

 

[BoeingBoy]

And now BB is saying the Ninth said the West had a valid DFR, but only that is was not ripe. I knew that turkey drug made everyone prone to sleep in front of the big game, but had no idea it had Peyote in it!

Not me - the 9th. What do you make of these quotes, RR?

Five months after certification, USAPA presented a seniority proposal to the airline. The proposal incorporated date-of-hire principles. Although the proposal contained some protections for West Pilots, it was not nearly as favorable to West Pilots as the Nicolau Award.

We conclude that this case presents contingencies that could prevent effectuation of USAPA’s proposal and the accompanying injury.

Although we do not hold that a DFR claim based on a union’s promotion of a policy is never ripe until that policy is effectuated, we conclude that, in this case, there is too much uncertainty standing in the way of effectuation of Plaintiffs’ harm to warrant judicial intervention at this stage.

As for this:

30 per month (minimum) on the East starting very soon, forever.

Since that would replace every line-flying East pilot in less than 7-1/2 years, when there will still be nearly 1400 current East line-flying pilots left. Are you expecting the east to expand by over 50% in the next 7-1/2 years? Or just repeating wishful thinking you've overheard...

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Dupe

Jim

 

[crazystnic]

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[crazystnic]

Yikes. Boy have I missed a lot!!

Move is now bringing up our accident record, and naming names. And attacking the moderator! Others think the scheduling hearing with Judge Silver will deliver the Holy Grail of the NIC to a vote, all of us working under NIC by April. Wow. And now BB is saying the Ninth said the West had a valid DFR, but only that is was not ripe. I knew that turkey drug made everyone prone to sleep in front of the big game, but had no idea it had Peyote in it!

The scheduling hearing will come and go. Judge Silver may or may not tip her hand with questions or statements..but she will eventually follow the law, even it takes another trip to Wake's woodshed at the Ninth to move thing along correctly. No disrespect meant to the fine Judge at all, but it happens to the best of them in the desert.

I find Cleary's hookup with Eric much more interesting forum fodder, and not because who outed who...obvious that was intended. Anyone know what they were wearing, or what they ordered at the restaurant? Pictures, anyone?

If I were a furloughee on the West right now, I would be fishing (and not cutting bait.) This is not going to be pretty. Anyone follow the events of TA 9 and its follow up grievance? 30 per month (minimum) on the East starting very soon, forever. Anyone going to pass on that recall? We shall see, but anyone on the street should be praying for a combined list, yesterday.

Tell you what, as I usually do (and probably not soon enough) I will go silent until the recounting of events in Judge Silver's court are presented by both sides. Fork in the road guys, but the West seems to have one tire flat and is (again) veering only one way.

RR

Hey RR,

The west forgets one thing and that is the NIC is not in effect until it is finally voted in with a final single contract... Lots on here like to say what will happen with that, but I'm pretty confident the EAST will not be voting in the NIC anytime soon.

 

[Move2CLT]

Hey RR,

The west forgets one thing and that is the NIC is not in effect until it is finally voted in with a final single contract... Lots on here like to say what will happen with that, but I'm pretty confident the EAST will not be voting in the NIC anytime soon.

Of course they will. I few nuggets of goodness and a kick in pay ans most of you guys will be crawling over each other to vote it in.

And the morning after you will deny doing so.

 

[Move2CLT]

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Ya, breeze tried the same thing. Ask him how it went.

 

[Code Name V]

The DJ bears little resemblance to your dfr conviction. You don't even know what's happening to you. Even Cleary figured it out. Hence the mediation ploy. Won't work . You made your bed, and we're going to slam you in it and bury your fake union.

You have been saying that for years now...and you will be saying it years from now. Just won't happen. You will never be integrated into this organization. You will remain separate forever and continue to stew in your own juices until such time as parker can sell you off. In the meantime why don't you go look at a map of the route system and see just how important PHX is to the entire scheme of things and where the revenue is really coming from.

The only thing you'll be slamming is when you're with your other circle jerk buddies...

V

 

[Black Swan]

Fact. Despite $e$hams best efforts, you're going to Federal Court again to explain yourselves. The Judge clearly smells a rat. It's illegal for the company to accept a contract that's a DFR.

Addington proved your scab scheme is easily a DFR. Oops! Company and the West DON'T want mediation...Oops! The Company and the West WANT to import all the Addington evidence...Oops! Its amazing how many time you've lost in Court. Now Seham stole over TEN MILLION DOLLARS and left you a huge pile of crap. See you on the 2nd...despite your maximum efforts !

You make up things. Show us the legal determination, the ruling. You can't. All you have is a rant!
Here is the ONLY thing that came out of Addington:

CONCLUSION

[10] For the foregoing reasons, we hold that Plaintiffs’
DFR claim is not ripe; therefore, the case is REMANDED to
the district court with directions that the action be DISMISSED.
No costs to either side.

 

[Black Swan]

Waiting for the follow up AQUAMAN FANTASY inference stating that it WILL be ripe. The 9th said nothing about it being ripe. Or will be ripe. In fact they said the contrary. They came out and said you might be imagining the harm, that it may not even become an issue.



[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

 

[Black Swan]

"The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the
Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA,
is binding on USAPA. See Diss op. at 8021-22" 9th Court of Appeals, San Fran.



This is what continues to confound AQUAMAN. He relentlessly pursues the MINORITY dissent, as the Holy Grail when the MAJORITY already ruled and memorialized that same ruling by dismissing Addington.

 

[Phoenix]

Waiting for the follow up AQUAMAN FANTASY inference stating that it WILL be ripe. The 9th said nothing about it being ripe. Or will be ripe. In fact they said the contrary. They came out and said you might be imagining the harm, that it may not even become an issue.



[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

Many on the West are terribly confused. They think that all DFR cases find for the plaintiffs against the union, when in fact the opposite is true. Unions are rarely found guilty of DFR, because of the wide range of reasonableness standard, the standard that Wake excluded from his court.

Until the SCOTUS reverses itself and removes USAPA's freedom to bargain, by reinstating Wake's injunction concerning USAPA's braining position, then USAPA remains free to bargain with the company, sans Nic.

The company's little ploy that "doubts" their own freedom to bargain, even as USAPA, is a very good delay tactic, but an absurd waste of time and money (unless you are the company, in which case it is an ingenious way to maintain low labor costs and protect shareholder value).

The company has no incentive to "fix" any of this. From their perspective it ain't broke. (How many separate seniority lists do they have conveying passengers every day? And how much of the route system isn't even mainline anyway??)

Thus the obvious, there are only two ways to any pay raise at mainline 1) an LOA 93 win or 2) attrition improvements (reserve to line, larger equipment, seat upgrade). The first is unlikely, the second is certain. Neither appear helpful to the West (or by some warped logic, to Chip and the ALPA boys), sans Nic.

 

[Phoenix]

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If folks would stop quoting him and Boeing Boy then life would be perfect. Thankfully USA 320 still posts to provide the side show at the circus.

 

[cleardirect]

Waiting for the follow up AQUAMAN FANTASY inference stating that it WILL be ripe. The 9th said nothing about it being ripe. Or will be ripe. In fact they said the contrary. They came out and said you might be imagining the harm, that it may not even become an issue.



[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

You really do believe your own fantasy don't you?

we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members — both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified.

In the face of the facts you are a liar. Everything you have said prior and after this is suspect.

 

[Move2CLT]

If folks would stop quoting him and Boeing Boy then life would be perfect. Thankfully USA 320 still posts to provide the side show at the circus.

Interesting how the ones that lay out the truth and facts are the ones the east runs from.