US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Nope, we're (since I was still working then) the only group that had their pension terminated in BK I. The remaining DB pensions were terminated in BK II.

Jim

 

[LSS]

It's amazing how time blurs things as I didn't remember any DB plans making it through BK I.

PI... the pilot's db plan was the only plan terminated in BK1. The other plans (except management's of course) were terminated in BK2. The other interesting tidbit that ALPA put out was 500M of the pilot give backs to the company in BK 1 were effectively applied to the remaining pension plans to keep them afloat. Was that true... who knows?

 

[Move2CLT]

That is new material.

I hope he doesn't kill someone this time.

Boy, you guys forget your history pretty fast.

I'll take Doug's DUI over all the accidents and incidents you guys have had over the years.

Any chance you can post those?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Believe it or not, everything doesn't revolve around the pilots. In I believe September/October 2004 a pension contribution was due for the FA and I think the IAM pension funds. That payment was the one that triggered BK II. The DB pensions of the other employee groups that had DB pensions were some of those "baubles" you dismiss so easily...

The weak-kneed employees, especially those child abusers who had their four year old daughters carry signs, made it easy for management. All management had to do was to point and the unions would clear the table. Most of us know that ALPA and the others were punked time and again. IMO, the egregious one was ALPA, believing every little tidbit tossed their way with no independent verification. NONE!

AFA lost their pension January 10, 2005 so I am not so certain their pension triggered anything. I don't know about the IAM.

Since you were not very clear, I helped you out on this "US Pilots Labor Discussion". No need to get huffy.

 

[luvthe9]

Boy, you guys forget your history pretty fast.

I'll take Doug's DUI over all the accidents and incidents you guys have had over the years.

Any chance you can post those?

Didn't you post them when you were Metroyet?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

I'll take Doug's DUI over all the accidents and incidents you guys have had over the years.

Confuse apples and oranges much?

 

[luvn737s]

The weak-kneed employees, especially those child abusers who had their four year old daughters carry signs, made it easy for management. All management had to do was to point and the unions would clear the table. Most of us know that ALPA and the others were punked time and again.

I would take incremental improvement over time to promises of grand reparations that never come true. I guess USAPA supporters are satisfied with rhetoric rather than results.

 

[Move2CLT]

Confuse apples and oranges much?

Ya, you're right.

Your deals were a bit more serious and expensive.

 

[Move2CLT]

Didn't you post them when you were Metroyet?

No, I posted them under this screen name not long ago.

And you've already forgotten!!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

AFA lost their pension January 10, 2005 so I am not so certain their pension triggered anything. I don't know about the IAM.

That's when the plans were terminated. Thanks to the bankruptcy filing, US didn't make the required payment when due.

BK II was filed in early September and the pension payments were due in late Sept/Oct. Because of the BK filing, they were not paid. If US had not filed, there was no way out of making the pension fund payments other than get the contract changed to freeze/terminate the pensions. Both the FA and IAM contracts weren't settled till after the payments were due despite being in BK.

Not sure how you "helped me out" by claiming that I was wrong....

Jim

 

[Beancounter]

The PBO(projected benefit obligation) they mentioned is just an estimate. A pension formula is used to project future levels. The part of the formula that deals with present values is pretty much set, but who determines future levels? The companies actuaries determine that and it causes that number you're seeing to become play dough in their hands. Just like earnings. Just last month I was doing calculations for VBO, ABO, and PBO. I didn't get to invent the numbers though, that's for actuaries, I just got the data and did calculations then posted the journal entries.

Who has the biggest underfunded pension plan in the airline business by percentage? Alaska Airlines. I believe they've ended their plan for new hires and have in the last couple years worked at increasing funding. Will American hand over their pension obligation to the PBGC, you betcha they will. Sucks.

 

[Barrister]

I agree.

Currently AA has about 1000 on furlough. Probably be more. Will the east still demand credit for furlough? Will they accept the AA furloughs mixed in with our active pilots?????

Any bets on the first east poster to say AA deserves to go below US Airwas because AA is BK.Will we hear how finances are all important now. Yet when the east was in trouble it was not their fault and managements fault.

Hold the fort MORON...isn't that the West argument....you are in BR ...you have no future.....
DAMN RIGHT the AMR furloghees get DOH....and when there is an opening they come back ahead of your.....wait for.....
here it come.........NEW HIRES!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Res Judicata]

Hold the fort MORON...isn't that the West argument....you are in BR ...you have no future.....
DAMN RIGHT the AMR furloghees get DOH....and when there is an opening they come back ahead of your.....wait for.....
here it come.........NEW HIRES!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

You're confusing cold hard reality with the delusional universe in your head again.

If a comma from the Nic is changed, we're going to sue the hell out of every responsible party till the end of time. Nic. Or LOA93 in perpetuity. It's just that simple.

 

[Pi brat]

Nope, we're (since I was still working then) the only group that had their pension terminated in BK I. The remaining DB pensions were terminated in BK II.

Jim

Not questioning you on that.

 

[Phoenix]

The weak-kneed employees, especially those child abusers who had their four year old daughters carry signs, made it easy for management. All management had to do was to point and the unions would clear the table. Most of us know that ALPA and the others were punked time and again. IMO, the egregious one was ALPA, believing every little tidbit tossed their way with no independent verification. NONE!

AFA lost their pension January 10, 2005 so I am not so certain their pension triggered anything. I don't know about the IAM.

Since you were not very clear, I helped you out on this "US Pilots Labor Discussion". No need to get huffy.

We can all be clever once in awhile.