US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

No, here is your problem. The 9th, that RULED.


[10] For the foregoing reasons, we hold that Plaintiffs’
DFR claim is not ripe; therefore, the case is REMANDED to
the district court with directions that the action be DISMISSED.
No costs to either side.

Ripeness v merit.

Figure it out.




USAPA, since 2005, they've been making Scientologists look like geniuses.

 

[Move2CLT]

DUI DOUG has another problem "Change of Control Provision" besides "EAST SCOPE" !

CoC? That kicked in pretty hard during our merger, didn't it?

How's the USAPA merger fund coming along?

 

[Res Judicata]

You honestly don't understand anything, do you?

There were three parties that were part of the TA and one no longer exists. That means the TA stands. Your MEC told you this when you guys got that hair up your backside to vote ALPA off property.

USAPA does inherit all agreements, and its stuck with the TA as is.

And I'm sure stapling seems attractive to your friends at AA as well, doesn't it?

If this merger ever did get off the ground, it would be

APAs list
Nicolau

And more than likely it would be slotting so you can put your DOH to rest. Everything would be based on the Nic.

And the list was never poisoned. It made it through negs, med, and arb with not even a peep from anyone. Didn't you get your verification letter from your MC?

One more time:

APA's list
Nicolau

End of story.

Yep. A joint contract is a joint contract. If it includes AMR at some point that will be dealt with separately from the nic. The integration between East and West is done...just waiting for a joint contract. As soon as APA, which would most certainly our new union, gets us a contract, the book closes. Just like now.

 

[Beancounter]

Just curious. Who or what would be the representative of the west pilots? Is it possible that they could represent themselves separately from USAPA? What federally recognized group would that be? AOL? The ones who stole/used our private information?

I mean, spokespeople for the west keep saying USAPA "inherits" all agreements and serves as the bargaining unit for the west, using that line of reasoning to threaten the unit with DFR. IANAL, but it seems the spoke people want it both ways.

Just thinking because DOH with C&Rs seems attractive to my friends at American. So, we have three groups, according to dougweiser (like I think he has any idea what he is talking about).

American
East
West

Since the Nicholau ¿award? was poisoned by an incomplete list from the east (thank you ALPA), any subsequent arbitration should be rather interesting. As in, we live in interesting times.

You're correct there is no one on the west to negotiate with, good question. USAPA can implement the NIC then turn around and go DOH or negotiate on behalf of the west for DOH, but we'll just end up in court again, because it would be blatantly obvious that USAPA didn't negotiate in good faith.

Probably end up in arbitration would be my guess. Any kind of USAPA end run around that will just assure that there are more rich lawyers. Haven't we already learned this lesson?

 

[nevergiveup]

Yep. A joint contract is a joint contract. If it includes AMR at some point that will be dealt with separately from the nic. The integration between East and West is done...just waiting for a joint contract. As soon as APA, which would most certainly our new union, gets us a contract, the book closes. Just like now.

I don't think the TA has provisions for a third party. The conditions that allow the company to use the NIC may never be met. If the West feels that the NIC is fair, then they should have no fear that if a new three way list is arbitrated, there will be no change. Win win for the west.

 

[Phoenix]

Totally irrelevant to the DJ. TOTALLY. I love how you guys still don't understand what's happening. When Silver allows the importation of all the Addington evidence, maybe you'll start to figure out why the Jurys' conviction of your fake unions is actually a monstrous problem for you. Hold on to ripeness though...if that's what helps you sleep!

There is no such thing as "Addington evidence". Evidence is evidence and it has little purpose unless and until you have a case before the court, which you don't. And evidence is not the issue. The issue is the standard of DFR that will be used to determine if DFR was breached. If you should ever be cleared into the court to present a DFR case, the SCOTUS standard cited by the 9th will not be exclude, as it was by Wake.

 

[OTTER574]

Just curious. Who or what would be the representative of the west pilots? Is it possible that they could represent themselves separately from USAPA? What federally recognized group would that be? AOL? The ones who stole/used our private information?

I mean, spokespeople for the west keep saying USAPA "inherits" all agreements and serves as the bargaining unit for the west, using that line of reasoning to threaten the unit with DFR. IANAL, but it seems the spoke people want it both ways.

Just thinking because DOH with C&Rs seems attractive to my friends at American. So, we have three groups, according to dougweiser (like I think he has any idea what he is talking about).

American
East
West

Since the Nicholau ¿award? was poisoned by an incomplete list from the east (thank you ALPA), any subsequent arbitration should be rather interesting. As in, we live in interesting times.

I don't know clubby..maybe you should ask the NMB and research the RLA for you answers?

My dues pay for a CBA of which usapa just happens to be and inherits my contract and will enforce all of it.

East requesting single class and craft with company assistance with the NMB was the DUMBEST move ever in the history of east corrupt pilots/company.

See you in court tomorrow clubby. Bring something to take notes and learn something for a change.

OTTER

 

[crazystnic]

I don't think the TA has provisions for a third party. The conditions that allow the company to use the NIC may never be met. If the West feels that the NIC is fair, then they should have no fear that if a new three way list is arbitrated, there will be no change. Win win for the west.

If the west thinks we are stealing jobs why wont they agree to a 10 or 15 year fence...

yeah I thought so.

 

[Black Swan]

Ripeness v merit.

Figure it out.




USAPA, since 2005, they've been making Scientologists look like geniuses.

It doesn't even really matter what I think, or you think- it is what the ruling court thinks, or thought. Think about it.....As much as you try, you just keep going up against the rock hard wall of the 9th. There is NO way around them, for you, or Silver.


[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

 

[Res Judicata]

There is no such thing as "Addington evidence".

this is going to be fun!

 

[Reed Richards]

You honestly don't understand anything, do you?

There were three parties that were part of the TA and one no longer exists. That means the TA stands.

So if three people enter into a mutually accepted and beneficial agreement, and one dies, the two remaining parties are forever bound by that agreement..or could they change it?

You are about to be given a unique opportunity to have real influence on your own future. Stomping your feet and holding your breath is not going to change the fact there will never be a two way contract between the pilot groups here. That ship has sailed. Time for us all to move on, or in your case lacking a change of attitude, be carried on.

RR

 

[Phoenix]

It doesn't even really matter what I think, it is what the ruling court thinks, or thought. Think about it.....


[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

The West likes to say the East doesn't understand "ripeness" vs. "merit", but the fact is the West doesn't understand "merit" or "ripeness" vs. "Bargain". Bargaining must be completed before either of the other two have any relevance.

 

[OTTER574]

If the west thinks we are stealing jobs why wont they agree to a 10 or 15 year fence...

yeah I thought so.

The fence was lifted..please crazys, next time read the only LEGAL list that was accepted by the company in it's entirety.

Known as the George Nicolau award btw.

OTTER

 

[OTTER574]

It doesn't even really matter what I think, or you think- it is what the ruling court thinks, or thought. Think about it.....As much as you try, you just keep going up against the rock hard wall of the 9th. There is NO way around them, for you, or Silver.


[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

Sorry young man but a few Federal Judges, a plaintiff known as lcc and another defendant known as AOL disagrees with you. Hope to see you in court tomorrow.

OTTER

 

[Phoenix]

The fence was lifted..please crazys, next time read the only LEGAL list that was accepted by the company in it's entirety.

Known as the George Nicolau award btw.

OTTER

That list is legally defined as the ALPA seniority integration proposal.