US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

I once asked Randy Mowrey if we could achieve an industry standard contract absent a unified pilot group. His answer was "absolutely, we don't need the west".

Subsequently we have been spanked by Judge Conrad in NC and the DJ doesn't bode well after today's hearing.

An industry standard contract appears to be red shifting away from us, like a distant galaxy.

If anyone speaks to Randy these days, would you ask him the same question as well as another? Does he think we can confront the APA successfully absent a unified pilot group?

 

[OTTER574]

Okay. Would you care to layout a timeline with your prediction? Maybe the date of the first bid open to all pilots?

You pb are now suggesting a hired, nmb approved, legal cba withhold/slowdown/negotiate in bad faith negotiations to a JNC with lcc so to benefit certain pilots? Come on pb, surely you can come up with something better than this...I think this may be ILLEGAL. Plus the nmb and Federal courts have a micro scope on usapa so-da-speak, thanks to the cleary corrupt brain trust.

OTTER

 

[Rookie Jr]

You're kidding right? They could have their butts handed to them on a Silver platter and they're not going to admit they were wrong or lost. Incredible arrogance and stupidity got us into this mess, multiple head bashings against a brick wall unfortunately will not fix it.

East arrogance. East stupidity. I might add east lack of integrity. The court is moving rapidly now and I don't think the east will be happy with the outcome.

 

[cactusboy53]

Any contract that even comes with in smelling distance of anything close to the fatally flawed Nic list will also include a longevity based pay scale then.

Boeing Driver

Make it so Number 1!

 

[Rookie Jr]

Yep, and then the company out of the goodness of their hearts will give us a much better contract within minutes if not seconds!

I'll take the company over ucrapa any day.

 

[Pi brat]

You pb are now suggesting a hired, nmb approved, legal cba withhold/slowdown/negotiate in bad faith negotiations to a JNC with lcc so to benefit certain pilots? Come on pb, surely you can come up with something better than this...I think this may be ILLEGAL. Plus the nmb and Federal courts have a micro scope on usapa so-da-speak, thanks to the cleary corrupt brain trust.

OTTER

OTTER, too long at the after party? 🙂 That made absolutely no sense.

I asked you for a timeline to go along with your prediction that this thing is about over. Just trying to get a feel for how much longer you guys see this going on.

I said nothing about any job action or illegal contract. Did you reply to the wrong post?

 

[Rookie Jr]

Plan B?

Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

They have little compunction about spanking Phoenix judges.

At any rate, maybe it will be settled before airplanes become obsolete.

This is a request for declaratory judgement. What will an appeals court have to do with it? Pretty lame plan B. Try again?

 

[Phoenix]

Complete and utter BS.

The West did not get 20% of east flying, or 20% of east passengers.

The West is still flying the same passenger totals, I think it is actuall less, (Boeing Boy might know) and the same passengers, to the same destinations.

The difference is, we are now doing it within the combined airlines route structure. Therefore %20+/- is done on "what historically could be considered an east route"

This whole quote came about because the company was involved with the TA10 grievence. They moved flying not from east to West, but from West to east, which caused the uneven furlough counts to be pushed onto the West pilot group. They lost that grievence. i.e. they did move flying West to east, and West pilots got furloughed out of system seniority.

Here is an example of how it works. Passenger wants to get a cheap redeye fare from LAX to DCA. When it was AWA, he boarded a flight in LAX at 6pm went to LAS, and connected to a redeye that arrived in DCA at 7am. After the merger, we close LAS,PIT,LGA,BOS. Now that pax goes on a West operated redeye from LAX to PHL or CLT to connect to DCA. Still the same pax, still the same route LAX to DCA, but it goes into the "historically east route" category because the legs are LAX-CLT and CLT-DCA, to shield the company from the impending loss on the TA10 grievence.

Prior to the merger I did PHL overnights all the time, CLT obviously not so much. Now that same route is also "historically and east route". the company was simply trying to make a defense in an arbitration they ended up losing. Which BTW, they still owe West pilots money for, and which will never get paid, because the scumbag union has it so far on the back burner that it will end up going away as part of a joint contract deal.

Moral of the story, next time you try to tell a West pilot you did anything to advance their career, save it for our furloughees who hit the bricks so one of your furloughees could retain employment.

Yeah, good call referring to Boeingboy. He knows all and could have finished your post with both more clarity and brevity.

 

[Rookie Jr]

Already asked and answered long ago. Cleary and $eham sent Management a letter stating that the Ninth gave USAPA the freedom to ignore the NIC award and present any seniority list they prefer. The company believes that USAPA would push this position into federal mediation and potentially get released to self-help. Judge Silver viewed that as a real threat just like she viewed AOL's threat of a hybrid DFR/collusion lawsuit to be a real threat. The DJ was filed to relieve the company from one of those two irreconcilable threats. Management knowing that USAPA would commit a DFR by disregarding the NIC is quite different from preventing their reckless behavior from impacting airline operations and the company's financial position. Silver sees this very clearly. Perhaps we we all get a chance to read today's transcripts this will be even more clear to even USAPA zealots.

Ucrapa zealots don't read the facts, don't listen to facts, don't believe facts. You should know this by now.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Welcome, and glad you have enjoyed the circus we have provided.

I agree with the premise that the attrition is not just the east's. I think all attrition, east and west should be shared fairly. I just don't think the Nic does that. Why do you think the west deserves a bigger chunk than the would stand alone, because that is what Nic gave them.

The introduction of the east into the west and the synergies that emerged profited the west because, as out CEO has said, the west model was finished. Our higher revenues outran their lower costs when fuel skyrocketed.

Thanks for the input, it's good to have new POVs here.

What part of Binding Arbitration do you not understand? The Binding part, or the Arbitration part?

 

[Pi brat]

What part of Binding Arbitration do you not understand? The Binding part, or the Arbitration part?

The poster addressed neither binding or arbitration. He addressed attrition and fairness. What part of that do you not understand?

 

[OTTER574]

OTTER, too long at the after party? 🙂 That made absolutely no sense.

I asked you for a timeline to go along with your prediction that this thing is about over. Just trying to get a feel for how much longer you guys see this going on.

I said nothing about any job action or illegal contract. Did you reply to the wrong post?

pibrat you don't make any sense as always. The whole usapa conception was to screw and steal from the west with the east majority. Tell me with a straight face usapa has been negotiating honestly, in good faith and fairly as my hired cba?

Once the DJ is decided, what does usapa have to negotiate except a fair JNC for all lcc pilots. Something it has REFUSED TO DO with the east corrupt illegal doh mantra since it's birth.

OTTER

 

[exB717Flyer]

The poster addressed neither binding or arbitration. He addressed attrition and fairness. What part of that do you not understand?

Nicolau understood.

 

[Pi brat]

pibrat you don't make any sense as always. The whole usapa conception was to screw and steal from the west with the east majority. Tell me with a straight face usapa has been negotiating honestly, in good faith and fairly as my hired cba?

Once the DJ is decided, what does usapa have to negotiate except a fair JNC for all lcc pilots. Something it has REFUSED TO DO with the east corrupt illegal doh mantra since it's birth.

OTTER

I make no sense? Really? Maybe if you are looking for some reason for my question, thinking it is a trap, or some other motive. There wasn't. It was a simple question. When do you think this will all be over?

Go sleep it off.

 

[Pi brat]

Nicolau understood.

Hey, you know what else? The sun went down tonight. So what? Fifidriver posted, I replied, it's REALLY THAT SIMPLE.

Most of what is posted on here is opinion, even if stated as fact. I'm entitled to my opinion, just like you, Hpretiree, OTTER and fifidriver are. Why does mine bother you so much? That little voice in the back of your head saying I'm right while you try to justify yours? 🙂