US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BLT]

I once asked Randy Mowrey if we could achieve an industry standard contract absent a unified pilot group. His answer was "absolutely, we don't need the west".

Subsequently we have been spanked by Judge Conrad in NC and the DJ doesn't bode well after today's hearing.

An industry standard contract appears to be red shifting away from us, like a distant galaxy.

If anyone speaks to Randy these days, would you ask him the same question as well as another? Does he think we can confront the APA successfully absent a unified pilot group?

Not to mention that compensation is a factor in seniority integration. APA has held their ground while we have pissed away years chasing a seniority pipe dream instead of an industry standard contract. This will come back to haunt us when the compensation package of an AMR FO is equal to or greater than that of a USAir Capt. They have tons of widebodies. Remember why the top 500 are where they are on the nic. Do you marvel at the companies turn around today in court from being neutral on seniority to stating that the Nic is it. They want this crap done. Pronto! If we as a pilot group (east and west) don't move on we will be torn apart by the APA.

Do you really want seniority to be negotiable after arbitration? What do you think APA would do to us with their voting majority?

 

[Res Judicata]

Can you further define that? Will USAPA not be able to appeal to SFO, then SCOTUS? Will the judge change the TA to allow the Nic to be used before a joint contract? If not, will she take away membership ratification?

I just don't see the end as near, but I'm listening.

Of course USLAPPY can appeal. The company and the West however are moving on. The TA doesn't need to be changed at all. If you want to vote for LOA93 until you die, go ahead. Membership ratification is alive and well. You get the Nic for section 22. Really not hard to grasp is it? Cast your vote however you like. Just remember the rest of the world is going to steam roll past you.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Not to mention that compensation is a factor in seniority integration. APA has held their ground while we have pissed away years chasing a seniority pipe dream instead of an industry standard contract. This will come back to haunt us when the compensation package of an AMR FO is equal to or greater than that of a USAir Capt. They have tons of widebodies. Remember why the top 500 are where they are on the nic. Do you marvel at the companies turn around today in court from being neutral on seniority to stating that the Nic is it. They want this crap done. Pronto! If we as a pilot group (east and west) don't move on we will be torn apart by the APA.

Do you really want seniority to be negotiable after arbitration? What do you think APA would do to us with their voting majority?

“I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes.”
― Jack Handey

 

[OTTER574]

I make no sense? Really? Maybe if you are looking for some reason for my question, thinking it is a trap, or some other motive. There wasn't. It was a simple question. When do you think this will all be over?

Go sleep it off.

pibrat...it will be over when usapa enforces my CONTRACT and accepts it's LEGAL OBLIGATIONS as a cba for all lcc pilots. usapa will accept and enforce the NIC as required within the TA.

Time line is getting interesting because it's suggesting the company needs an answer to your ambiguous questions via the DJ.

OTTER

 

[HPearlyretiree]

The poster addressed neither binding or arbitration. He addressed attrition and fairness. What part of that do you not understand?

Because that is what this is all about .

Did all 3 sides agree to binding arbitration? yes

Did the company and the west accept the outcome? yes

Did the east pull a craven maneuver by making a sham union in order to try to weenie out of their agreement? yes

Has it hurt the east pilots? yes

Its all about living up to what you agreed to. Its the law, and its what honorable people do.

 

[Pi brat]

Of course USLAPPY can appeal. The company and the West however are moving on. The TA doesn't need to be changed at all. If you want to vote for LOA93 until you die, go ahead. Membership ratification is alive and well. You get the Nic for section 22. Really not hard to grasp is it? Cast your vote however you like. Just remember the rest of the world is going to steam roll past you.

Why so angry? They really are simple questions, I'm not trying to rain on your parade.

Rookie Jr. seemed to disagree:

"This is a request for declaratory judgement. What will an appeals court have to do with it? Pretty lame plan B. Try again?"

So, I guess he is wrong?

 

[exB717Flyer]

Hey, you know what else? The sun went down tonight. So what? Fifidriver posted, I replied, it's REALLY THAT SIMPLE.

Most of what is posted on here is opinion, even if stated as fact. I'm entitled to my opinion, just like you, Hpretiree, OTTER and fifidriver are. Why does mine bother you so much? That little voice in the back of your head saying I'm right while you try to justify yours? 🙂

Wow, you sure lit up like a firecracker. If want something REALLY SIMPLE to chew on try this: people with integrity live up to their obligations even when they don't like it. The fact that you don't agree with Nicoalu's list is irrelevant in the eyes of the law. The fact that you don't agree with Nicolau's list doesn't justify the treacherous actions you and the other Easties have taken against the West. If there is justice you will be punished. Letting the APA have its way with y'all just might do the trick.

 

[Pi brat]

pibrat...it will be over when usapa enforces my CONTRACT and accepts it's LEGAL OBLIGATIONS as a cba for all lcc pilots. usapa will accept and enforce the NIC as required within the TA.

Time line is getting interesting because it's suggesting the company needs an answer to your ambiguous questions via the DJ.

OTTER

Ok, despite your big predictions you don't want to put yourself out there with a time. Fine.

The last line I can agree with you. It seems that after years of "Aw shucks, we don't care, it's not up to us, blah, blah, blah" the company now seems to be leaning towards the west side and wants to end it. Interesting.

 

[Pi brat]

Because that is what this is all about .

Oh no you didn't! Calling names is a no no. You're going to have uhaul running to the moderator!

I was speaking to fifi about OPINIONS on what was fair etc. Neither of our opinions matter a whit, just as the last 3000 posts haven't. Have you issued your same edicts to everyone of them. And besides, I give consideration to what east and west pilots think, I give you none.

 

[Pi brat]

Wow, you sure lit up like a firecracker. If want something REALLY SIMPLE to chew on try this: people with integrity live up to their obligations even when they don't like it. The fact that you don't agree with Nicoalu's list is irrelevant in the eyes of the law. The fact that you don't agree with Nicolau's list doesn't justify the treacherous actions you and the other Easties have taken against the West. If there is justice you will be punished. Letting the APA have its way with y'all just might do the trick.

I agree that my opinion of the Nic doesn't matter. I agree about the integrity part. Here's another thing people with integrity do: back up claims made against others with facts. "The fact that you don't agree with Nicolau's list doesn't justify the treacherous actions you and the other Easties have taken against the West." Okay, go ahead and show my treacherous acts.

Let's say the Nic is the list and we merge with AA. I'm pretty sure I'm senior to you on the list. So, your wishing ill on me by the APA having their way will be worse for you. A stroke of genius.

 

[Res Judicata]

Why so angry? They really are simple questions, I'm not trying to rain on your parade.

Rookie Jr. seemed to disagree:

"This is a request for declaratory judgement. What will an appeals court have to do with it? Pretty lame plan B. Try again?"

So, I guess he is wrong?

Just repeating what our attorneys told us. USCABA can appeal the DJ. why so angry? Seriously? GMAFB. You scabs have wasted years and a billion of OUR dollars on a fools errand that everybody told you years ago would end up here. A pointless waste of all our careers...why so angry?

 

[Pi brat]

Just repeating what our attorneys told us. USCABA can appeal the DJ. why so angry? Seriously? GMAFB. You scabs have wasted years and a billion of OUR dollars on a fools errand that everybody told you years ago would end up here. A pointless waste of all our careers...why so angry? Guess .

So I did rain on your parade. I'm sorry, I should have given you your moment in the sun and let you enjoy your "win" today instead of pointing out the reality that we are still away off from resolution. Silly me, I thought you guys were all about the truth.

Nice sign off. Really, that's what you think of me? I'm so hurt.

 

[OTTER574]

Ok, despite your big predictions you don't want to put yourself out there with a time. Fine.

The last line I can agree with you. It seems that after years of "Aw shucks, we don't care, it's not up to us, blah, blah, blah" the company now seems to be leaning towards the west side and wants to end it. Interesting.

Yes Pi Brat I agree. The company (bular and hogg) has been feeding the east pilots a line of bullshit since the last 2 east bankruptcies....with a "jerry glass/parker aw shucks" thrown in for good measure.

OTTER

 

[Pi brat]

The company (bular and hogg) has been feeding the east pilots a line of bullshit since the last 2 east bankruptcies....with a "jerry glass/parker aw shucks" thrown in for good measure.

OTTER

Most of us haven't trusted any of them for a while. It was the west that said that Hogg and Bular were taking care of the east.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Okay, go ahead and show my treacherous acts.

Okay: it's all in the transcripts from the Addington trial. There's a reason a jury unanimously found USAPA liable in just two hours. Hint: it wasn't a biased judge, jury, or anything in the water.

Let's say the Nic is the list and we merge with AA. I'm pretty sure I'm senior to you on the list. So, your wishing ill on me by the APA having their way will be worse for you.

Worth it.