US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fodase]

BTW, guess what case evidence is being imported into judge Silver's court room? hint: a case usapa claims is dead.

 

[cactusboy53]

So, for the sake of argument... since we're all just sitting here...
If the NIC were to be implemented by, judicial mandate, company insistance, popular vote, east pilot largesse (TIC), or whatever; What would be the next physical step for usapa?

IMHO, here's the short list:
1. IMMEDIATELY change the seniority section to read that an unrestricted Nicolau Award is the primary seniority list, followed by date of hire into any new position at LCC. Further, a mandate that should we merge with ANY carrier that we subscribe to the tenets of the Bond/McCaskill legislation.
2. Officer Elections are coming: Vote in EQUAL representation in National Officer positions.
3. Revamp all committees to include EQUAL representation in chair positions.
4. NAC: IMMEDIATELY staff the NAC with 6 SEASONED contract negotiators (3 West, 3 East). Suggest to the company to revisit the already closed 27 sections done during ALPA. Revisit what parts of the Kirby Proposal are acceptable, and what needs SERIOUS attention.

Parker wants this to be done, and given the right pressure will be willing to pay for it.

DOH is DOA. The sooner you USAPA faithful get this though your heads, the sooner you may have a contract that is AT LEAST as good (if not BETTER) as the one we currently work under. Time is money, kids. You've bought delay with NO other benefit.

 

[767one]

Dissolve.

Yep, and then the company out of the goodness of their hearts will give us a much better contract within minutes if not seconds!

 

[nycbusdriver]

I don't think we have to concern ourselves about another DFR. From what I heard about court today it appears the company believes it is legally obligated to use the Nic. The judge expedited the process and it doesn't look good for ucrapa.

So: what's your plan B?

Plan B?

Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

They have little compunction about spanking Phoenix judges.

At any rate, maybe it will be settled before airplanes become obsolete.

 

[Pi brat]

So, for the sake of argument... since we're all just sitting here...
If the NIC were to be implemented by, judicial mandate, company insistance, popular vote, east pilot largesse (TIC), or whatever; What would be the next physical step for usapa?

Do you mean implemented or required to be in section 22? The TA calls for a joint contract before the integrated SL can be used, so I don't see a judge mandating that part. It's been a while but I think AOL asked Judge Wake for that and he declined.

If, after all appeals, USAPA has to insert the Nic in section 22 I expect them to do it and then we get on with negotiating a new contract and then see if it will pass membership ratification.

 

[Pi brat]

From what I heard about court today it appears the company believes it is legally obligated to use the Nic.

Did they judge then ask the company what the he$$ they were doing there then?

 

[nic4us]

It gave him 20 percent of the East passengers to fly around without which he would be furloughed. Things may have looked good at the snap shot but the actual future is quite different (closing LAS).

Every time I here the West got nothing I think about the net 20 percent of the flying they got and forget about. How many Philly and Charlotte overnights did you have previosly?

Complete and utter BS.

The West did not get 20% of east flying, or 20% of east passengers.

The West is still flying the same passenger totals, I think it is actuall less, (Boeing Boy might know) and the same passengers, to the same destinations.

The difference is, we are now doing it within the combined airlines route structure. Therefore %20+/- is done on "what historically could be considered an east route"

This whole quote came about because the company was involved with the TA10 grievence. They moved flying not from east to West, but from West to east, which caused the uneven furlough counts to be pushed onto the West pilot group. They lost that grievence. i.e. they did move flying West to east, and West pilots got furloughed out of system seniority.

Here is an example of how it works. Passenger wants to get a cheap redeye fare from LAX to DCA. When it was AWA, he boarded a flight in LAX at 6pm went to LAS, and connected to a redeye that arrived in DCA at 7am. After the merger, we close LAS,PIT,LGA,BOS. Now that pax goes on a West operated redeye from LAX to PHL or CLT to connect to DCA. Still the same pax, still the same route LAX to DCA, but it goes into the "historically east route" category because the legs are LAX-CLT and CLT-DCA, to shield the company from the impending loss on the TA10 grievence.

Prior to the merger I did PHL overnights all the time, CLT obviously not so much. Now that same route is also "historically and east route". the company was simply trying to make a defense in an arbitration they ended up losing. Which BTW, they still owe West pilots money for, and which will never get paid, because the scumbag union has it so far on the back burner that it will end up going away as part of a joint contract deal.

Moral of the story, next time you try to tell a West pilot you did anything to advance their career, save it for our furloughees who hit the bricks so one of your furloughees could retain employment.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Did they judge then ask the company what the he$$ they were doing there then?

Already asked and answered long ago. Cleary and $eham sent Management a letter stating that the Ninth gave USAPA the freedom to ignore the NIC award and present any seniority list they prefer. The company believes that USAPA would push this position into federal mediation and potentially get released to self-help. Judge Silver viewed that as a real threat just like she viewed AOL's threat of a hybrid DFR/collusion lawsuit to be a real threat. The DJ was filed to relieve the company from one of those two irreconcilable threats. Management knowing that USAPA would commit a DFR by disregarding the NIC is quite different from preventing their reckless behavior from impacting airline operations and the company's financial position. Silver sees this very clearly. Perhaps we we all get a chance to read today's transcripts this will be even more clear to even USAPA zealots.

 

[OTTER574]

Did they judge then ask the company what the he$$ they were doing there then?

The company is asking for it's LEGAL OBLIGATIONS in regards to the TA/CONTRACT.

Lcc attorney Siegel showed the companies hand. Very weak on lcc's part I might add for a Federal Judge to hear this DJ case in regards to the mountain of evidence (ADDINGTON) that lcc must abide by the TA. He now states this years after the fact in front of Judge Silver. (johnny come lately)

Usapa or any other union will be forced to uphold section 22/NIC with a joint contract or face unquestionable ripe DFR.

OTTER

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Did they judge then ask the company what the he$$ they were doing there then?

The company could have, and arguably should have, stated that position to usapa early on and let usapa fight against that position. But then they would have missed out on the cheap contracts and fun of seeing us beat the snot out of each other.

I missed the hearing today, but I made the one in Feb. She did ask that question then, Siegal then went on to claim knowing what happened in a jury trial overturned only on ripeness changed things. Right.

 

[Res Judicata]

As expected, Addington returns to haunt the East...exposing $e$ham as the ambulance chasing money drainer of emotional nitwits. Expedited ruling. Company and West are on same exact page,(despite crew news lies) and the Judge laughed at the notion of Clear's "olive branch" mediation. Today was exactly what USCABA has feared.

This will be OVER by April. Expect the Injunction to include the language that any future seniority negotiations with any 3 rd party must use the Nic. As well. Our Legal team filed a brief highlighting the need due to the obvious American transaction. The buck has stopped.

 

[Boeing Driver]

IMHO, here's the short list:
1. IMMEDIATELY change the seniority section to read that an unrestricted Nicolau Award is the primary seniority list, followed by date of hire into any new position at LCC. Further, a mandate that should we merge with ANY carrier that we subscribe to the tenets of the Bond/McCaskill legislation.
2. Officer Elections are coming: Vote in EQUAL representation in National Officer positions.
3. Revamp all committees to include EQUAL representation in chair positions.
4. NAC: IMMEDIATELY staff the NAC with 6 SEASONED contract negotiators (3 West, 3 East). Suggest to the company to revisit the already closed 27 sections done during ALPA. Revisit what parts of the Kirby Proposal are acceptable, and what needs SERIOUS attention.

Parker wants this to be done, and given the right pressure will be willing to pay for it.

DOH is DOA. The sooner you USAPA faithful get this though your heads, the sooner you may have a contract that is AT LEAST as good (if not BETTER) as the one we currently work under. Time is money, kids. You've bought delay with NO other benefit.

Any contract that even comes with in smelling distance of anything close to the fatally flawed Nic list will also include a longevity based pay scale then.

Boeing Driver

 

[Move2CLT]

Any contract that even comes with in smelling distance of anything close to the fatally flawed Nic list will also include a longevity based pay scale then.

Boeing Driver

Power to you. Maybe a merger will allow that to happen.

And the Nic is not fatally flawed. It is alive and well. And so is Addington for that matter.

 

[Pi brat]

The buck has stopped.

Can you further define that? Will USAPA not be able to appeal to SFO, then SCOTUS? Will the judge change the TA to allow the Nic to be used before a joint contract? If not, will she take away membership ratification?

I just don't see the end as near, but I'm listening.

 

[Pi brat]

The company could have, and arguably should have, stated that position to usapa early on and let usapa fight against that position. But then they would have missed out on the cheap contracts and fun of seeing us beat the snot out of each other.

I missed the hearing today, but I made the one in Feb. She did ask that question then, Siegal then went on to claim knowing what happened in a jury trial overturned only on ripeness changed things. Right.

I wonder if the company's hired guns get extra pay for keeping a straight face in court.