US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

The "final and binding arbitration" has absolutely no relevance to the company. They were not parties to it. And as for the TA, it plainly sates the rights of the barging parties to freely negotiate. If the company holds to a position on Sec 22 then by all means they are entitle to hold that bargaining position.

IV. Seniority List Integration
A. The seniority lists of America West pilots and
US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance
with ALPA Merger Policy and submitted to the
Airline Parties for acceptance. The Airline
Parties will accept such integrated seniority list,
including conditions and restrictions, if such list
and the conditions and restrictions comply with
the following criteria:


Yep,,plainly stated, so you got that part right!

The part about the company not being a party to the arbitration is correct also, but, the company is obviously a party to the TA.

The company has repeatedly said it is neutral in the seniority integration, and that they do not "negotiate" for the pilots seniority. The company simply accepts a list that the pilots "negotiate" amongst ourselves. We did that to conclusion, to the terms of the TA and closed out that section of negotiations when the company accepted. usapa wishes to re-open that section and re-write it, up until this point without West participation, which is a certain DFR as already determined.

Question for the courts is, is LCC liable for accepting an illegally determined list, when it knows in advance that the list is illegal. Answere is going to be Yes, and there is over 70 years of DFR case law to back that up.

So, LCC's "bargaining position" is not going to be DOH or the Nic, it will be, we will accept whatever list you hand us that meets the criteria of the TA, and is in no way a predictable failure of the union's DFR. Luckily for all involved, we already have that list and it is the Nic.



Hey Pi....is this the same language in your TA? Maybe the entire problem lies in we are all reading different contracts.

 

[nic4us]

Now that you have established yourself as smarter than the other West posters, what does that say?

That as one of the many things I waste my limited time on earth doing,,,,,, I read the USA Today ad!

 

[cleardirect]

When that lava finally hits your feet it probably won't be so funny. A little shortsighted, IMHO.

How is the meltdown of usapa bad for the west? So far the grievance committee has thrown us under the bus. Rolled over on distance learning. Ignores west grievances. Has not taken a single west grievance to arbitration.

Comm is a joke.

No west members on the NAC and they are giving away our contract.

There are so few west members on committees that it does not matter we are not getting an service anyway. How is this bad for us?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Did Kirby send out fake emails?

I didn't know. Tell us about it.

While you are at it, what is a "fake email"?

 

[Pi brat]

Hey Pi....is this the same language in your TA? Maybe the entire problem lies in we are all reading different contracts.

That is the same. Is there a copy of the TA on Cactuspilot?

 

[Pi brat]

How is the meltdown of usapa bad for the west? So far the grievance committee has thrown us under the bus. Rolled over on distance learning. Ignores west grievances. Has not taken a single west grievance to arbitration.

Comm is a joke.

No west members on the NAC and they are giving away our contract.

There are so few west members on committees that it does not matter we are not getting an service anyway. How is this bad for us?

I'm not sure how that applies to what I said, but if it makes you feel better..........

 

[cleardirect]

I didn't know. Tell us about it.

While you are at it, what is a "fake email"?

Uninformed? Did the comm committee fail to keep the membership fully informed about what is happening in your union? Better catch up. It could get expensive again. Yet another law suit coming your way.

 

[Pi brat]

Yet another law suit coming your way.

Aw, who cares? Didn't you know that lawsuits were cheap!

Okay, so what is the new one that is headed our way. And is it just the east pilots whose way it's headed? Just members? All US pilots? What?

 

[nic4us]

That is the same. Is there a copy of the TA on Cactuspilot?

I can't find it there if it is.

I originally copied it from the AWAPPA site, but that is password protected, and I am not sure it is still even there, since they redid that site some time ago.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Yet another law suit coming your way.

Hmmmm

Yet another law suit coming your our way. Yeah, that more accurately describes what might happen.

BTW, I give little credence to allegations, at least until due process occurs. Something you might try. If you do, guaranteed, your literacy will increase, not enough for bathroom walls in your case, but, an improvement none the less.

 

[Pi brat]

I can't find it there if it is.

I originally copied it from the AWAPPA site, but that is password protected, and I am not sure it is still even there, since they redid that site some time ago.

Mine came from the USAPA site. Can't find another copy. Weird that our two copies had different language. Yeah, maybe that's been the whole problem! 🙂

 

[Phoenix]

..
The part about the company not being a party to the arbitration is correct also, but, the company is obviously a party to the TA.
..

The TA does not allow either the East or the West to present any bargaining proposal to the Company.

The company has repeatedly said it is neutral in the seniority integration, and that they do not "negotiate" for the pilots seniority. ...

Bingo.

Question for the courts is, is LCC liable for accepting an illegally determined list, when it knows in advance that the list is illegal.

Wait, you said the company is neutral. And no one has determined that USAPA is illegal to present a seniority proposal in keeping with their authority as the CBA.

So, LCC's "bargaining position" is not going to be DOH or the Nic,..

Okay. Fine. $h!+ happens during bargaining.

 

[Phoenix]

As you have been told repeatedly, feel free to substiitute usapa where it says ALPA.
...

Very well, as you wish.

IV. Seniority List Integration
A. The seniority lists of America West pilots and
US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance
with USAPA Merger Policy and submitted to the
Airline Parties for acceptance. The Airline
Parties will accept such integrated seniority list,
including conditions and restrictions, if such list
and the conditions and restrictions comply with
the following criteria:

That is the real issue. Who can usurp the authority of a bargaining agent during bargaining?

 

[nic4us]

The TA does not allow either the East or the West to present any bargaining proposal to the Company.




Bingo.



Wait, you said the company is neutral. And no one has determined that USAPA is illegal to present a seniority proposal in keeping with their authority as the CBA.




Okay. Fine. $h!+ happens during bargaining.

Go ahead and play dumb, I no longer care.

The fact of the matter is usapa is the legally elected bargaining agent. As such it has the responsibility to bargain in good faith for ALL MEMBERS IT REPRESENTS.

To say usapa is not constrained in whatever proposals it offers is and absolute falsehood. It is constrained by the DFR it owes ALL members. The 9th reiterated this fact to usapa but you just don't seem to get it, or you are playing me with a feigned ignorance.

It has already been proven by jury trial, that every player is aware of, that the usapa DOH proposal fails that DFR.

So, actually nine jurors and 5 federal judges have determined that usapa IS LEGAL to present a seniority proposal in keeping with its authority as CBA, just not the one they have presented to date, and oh, BTW, they inherited the Nic that they are trying to re-write from their predecessor.

 

[Rookie Jr]

The "final and binding arbitration" has what relevance to the company? They were not parties to it. And as for the TA, it plainly sates the rights of the barging parties to freely negotiate. If the company holds to a position on Sec 22 then by all means they are entitled to hold that bargaining position.

The company is not party to it? Have you read the TA? Did you read Parker's letter accepting the Nic? Have you been paying attention at all?