US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Where is that youtube link to Seeham playing guitar when you need it??????

A little help here????

 

[Move2CLT]

Where is that youtube link to Seeham playing guitar when you need it??????

A little help here????

http://www.newcastlenow.org/index.php/article/musical_op-ed_chappaqua_double-crossing

 

[Move2CLT]

Look forward to seeing Kubic's resignation letter here. It’s a doozy.

RR

If you got it, post it.

 

[OTTER574]

Well there is two tidbits for everybody.

Little Lee just made it public that usapa was preparing to sue somebody over the AOL mailings list. Company (deeper pockets) or AOL,,,,,or maybe both??

And, usapa has stiffed him since August...He hasn't been paid in over four months.

So, here is my question,,,(wish HP-FA still posted here),,,is e-mail fraud a felony? and, as an officer of the court is Seeham duty bound to report such? What I really want to know and am asking, is can Seeham seek money damages, or does he have to first get a DA to go for criminal charges? In otherwords, again because I really do not know the correct phraseology here, does Seeham have to see that charges are pressed against the owner of the "alleged" IP adress in order to then seek something from the association?

I would think he could not, again as a liscensed attorney, knowing that a crime had been commited, just say, "hey, pay me, never let it happen again, and we will sweep the rest under the rug".

Seems I remember lee seham has a history of pro management, anti-labor litigation's.

usapa, lcc current management and lee seham seem to fit one another....go figure?

OTTER

 

[Pi brat]

PI was born into the job at the tender age of 24. On another thread he talks about flying on a Piedmont 737 at age 5 and then flying the same aircraft 19 years later as a new employee. The job market was very competitive in the '80s, I guess having daddy working at the airline helped grease a few skids to get junior a job.
I wonder how much PIC turbine time ol' PI had accumulated by the time he got his golden ticket? Hmmmm. I really believe PI is a pretty good guy, he's just having problems with a DOH merger with US Scare where he got burned badly and now he saw a relative seniority merger with AWA. Poor guy, he's extremely frustrated and it shows in his posts with you, Jim, Jetz and others.

This is all info PI has been nice enough to share with us all throughout the years- nothing new in this post. I don't know who he is and he certainly has no clue who I am.

Pre, Pre, Pre. Gurl,this obsession you have with me is not healthy and has to stop. It's not my fault it took you so long to get hired by a major airline and that your career has sucked. Now from you posts we can clearly see that you don't have much God given talent, but maybe had you applied yourself, or even better, worked on your personality skills, it could have been better. But that is water under the bridge and you will have to live with what you have. Attacking me won't make it better.

I have to give you credit for your tenacity, if not your brains. I'm guessing you did not do too well in school in subjects that required logic or anything more than basic math. Am I right? Because in just about every back and forth between us you have been WRONG.

-My first ride on a 737 was not at the age of 5. Where did you get that?
-From there you did get the simple math right that 5+19=24. But if you start at the wrong point you end at the wrong point. I was not 24 when I got hired.
-One place you got off track was that you assumed the 19 year point was when I got hired at PI. It wasn't, I was a 727 F/E for a year before moving to the 737 right seat. See what happens when you make assumptions without knowing the facts?
-I had more PIC turbine time and more total time than PI required.

As for my Dad helping me get the job, you are absolutely correct. Implying that it was a bad thing is incorrect. My Dad was a highly respected station manager for PI when I got hired. He worked his tail off for PI and PI was the kind of company that remembered that and rewarded it. Part of his hard work involved 6 moves from the time he started until I finally said I wasn't moving anymore at the age of 17. That put me through 6 different schools in 5 cities and for my sister it was 8. When we moved a week before I was to be a freshman in HS I asked him why we had to. He told me that if I wanted to fly for PI one day it would pay off, and it did.

You didn't deserve that explanation, but you were talking about my Dad as if he did something wrong. He didn't. His hard work allowed me an early shot for my hard work to pay off and I paid the company back by being a good employee.

And one last thing pre. I couldn't care less who you are.

 

[Pi brat]

I guess I'm at a disadvantage here. My degree is in engineering and not English so help me to understand. You're talking about a process which neither involves my opinion nor my choice yet somehow that has something to do with my integrity? Furthermore, you think it somehow impugns my integrity when this whole thread is about a pilot group which reneges on its agreement?

If you're going to fly off the handle with anger at least try maintain some rationality. Otherwise, you sound just like all the other USAPA propaganda mouthpieces.

It seems pretty clear to me. If we merge and your AA number will let you leapfrog people that were senior to you at AWA, even though the mantra has been "no furloughed pilot ahead of an active pilot" you will do it. Isn't that what you said? If I misunderstood you I will retract that, even though you don't have the integrity to retract your "treachery" comment.

What kind of engineer? That does help clear things up.

 

[Barrister]

On Thursday, December 1st, The Honorable Chief Judge of the Federal District of Arizona, Judge Roslyn O. Silver, held a Scheduling Conference in The US Airways’ Complaint for Declaratory Relief (Doc 1) at the Sandra Day O’Connor Federal Court House in Phoenix, Arizona.

This was our second visit into Courtroom 604 as you may recall the first was the dismissal hearing on February 9, 2011. While the three parties are basically the same, there were some differences in both nature and physical appearance.

While we are all familiar with US Airways lead counsel Robert Siegel, it was the first appearance for the freshly minted West Class and the three new Class Representatives with Attorney Marty Harper at the helm along with the new law firm for USAPA led by Patrick Szymanski. While not a capacity gallery, there were many West pilots in attendance, and for a moment, we didn’t see any east pilots until we realized that they chose to attend incognito. We have an inquiry to our Phoenix Reps as to whether the union business uniform policy has been changed to street clothes without our knowledge or BPR consent.

Judge Silver began with a few housekeeping details denying USAPA’s objections to West Class Certification and granting the additional West Class Representatives. Thereafter, it was right to business as Judge Silver began whittling the pencil lead to a very sharp point by the end of the 59 minute hearing. Her focus was to create a manageable case to answer a simple question: Will Plaintiff US Airways be held liable to the Defendant West Class in the event they choose to negotiate a non-Nicolau seniority integration with Co-Defendant USAPA?

Since most of the case strategy was decided among the parties in the Joint Case Management Plan (Doc 130), there were some lingering protests to the pace of how this case should proceed. Being the squeaky-wheel, USAPA’s counsel was first to answer Judge Silver’s questions. After a long-winded and rather circular argument for discovery by Patrick Szymanski, Judge Silver simply did not find validity in USAPA’s idea that discovery into post-merger career expectations somehow awards the union a lawful right to renege on the Transition Agreement and Nicolau Arbitration. Her focus was refined when Robert Siegel posited that US Airways believes the Nicolau is binding on all parties per the Transition Agreement (TA). Leonidas counsel Marty Harper added that USAPA is attempting a collateral attack on the Nicolau decision and that Judge Silver must not allow that to occur.

After arguments, Judge Silver decided to forgo lengthy and gratuitous discovery in favor of Expedited Summary Judgment on the legal issue at hand: US Airways liability under the undisputed facts of this case. An Expedited Summary Judgment is what the West and Airways argued for. USAPA apparently was aiming for an adjudication far more involved and time consuming than a summary judgment, but Judge Silver did not give USAPA what they wanted. Now, briefs will be submitted on January 17th and responses are due on February 10th. USAPA and the West will argue how the law applies to Counts I and II1. If Judge Silver decides that the law is clear as applied to the undisputed facts of the Airways case, then she can render a final decision that effectively ends the seniority dispute once and for all.

Be sure to check www.cactuspilot.com for the transcripts from Thursday’s hearing. We urge all parties to read the transcripts.

We continue to applaud your diligence in funding the protection of all US Airways pilots’ careers.

Finally, we leave you with the quote of the day offered by the Honorable Judge Silver when she responded to USAPA’s request for the Court Ordered Mediation by saying, “Mediation is a needless consumption of time.” We couldn’t agree more.


Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

What make the army think Silver wilL render a final decision "once and for all"
If the East looses its back to the 9th boys....COUNT ON It

nicdoa
npjb

 

[Barrister]

On Thursday, December 1st, The Honorable Chief Judge of the Federal District of Arizona, Judge Roslyn O. Silver, held a Scheduling Conference in The US Airways’ Complaint for Declaratory Relief (Doc 1) at the Sandra Day O’Connor Federal Court House in Phoenix, Arizona.

This was our second visit into Courtroom 604 as you may recall the first was the dismissal hearing on February 9, 2011. While the three parties are basically the same, there were some differences in both nature and physical appearance.

While we are all familiar with US Airways lead counsel Robert Siegel, it was the first appearance for the freshly minted West Class and the three new Class Representatives with Attorney Marty Harper at the helm along with the new law firm for USAPA led by Patrick Szymanski. While not a capacity gallery, there were many West pilots in attendance, and for a moment, we didn’t see any east pilots until we realized that they chose to attend incognito. We have an inquiry to our Phoenix Reps as to whether the union business uniform policy has been changed to street clothes without our knowledge or BPR consent.

Judge Silver began with a few housekeeping details denying USAPA’s objections to West Class Certification and granting the additional West Class Representatives. Thereafter, it was right to business as Judge Silver began whittling the pencil lead to a very sharp point by the end of the 59 minute hearing. Her focus was to create a manageable case to answer a simple question: Will Plaintiff US Airways be held liable to the Defendant West Class in the event they choose to negotiate a non-Nicolau seniority integration with Co-Defendant USAPA?

Since most of the case strategy was decided among the parties in the Joint Case Management Plan (Doc 130), there were some lingering protests to the pace of how this case should proceed. Being the squeaky-wheel, USAPA’s counsel was first to answer Judge Silver’s questions. After a long-winded and rather circular argument for discovery by Patrick Szymanski, Judge Silver simply did not find validity in USAPA’s idea that discovery into post-merger career expectations somehow awards the union a lawful right to renege on the Transition Agreement and Nicolau Arbitration. Her focus was refined when Robert Siegel posited that US Airways believes the Nicolau is binding on all parties per the Transition Agreement (TA). Leonidas counsel Marty Harper added that USAPA is attempting a collateral attack on the Nicolau decision and that Judge Silver must not allow that to occur.

After arguments, Judge Silver decided to forgo lengthy and gratuitous discovery in favor of Expedited Summary Judgment on the legal issue at hand: US Airways liability under the undisputed facts of this case. An Expedited Summary Judgment is what the West and Airways argued for. USAPA apparently was aiming for an adjudication far more involved and time consuming than a summary judgment, but Judge Silver did not give USAPA what they wanted. Now, briefs will be submitted on January 17th and responses are due on February 10th. USAPA and the West will argue how the law applies to Counts I and II1. If Judge Silver decides that the law is clear as applied to the undisputed facts of the Airways case, then she can render a final decision that effectively ends the seniority dispute once and for all.

Be sure to check www.cactuspilot.com for the transcripts from Thursday’s hearing. We urge all parties to read the transcripts.

We continue to applaud your diligence in funding the protection of all US Airways pilots’ careers.

Finally, we leave you with the quote of the day offered by the Honorable Judge Silver when she responded to USAPA’s request for the Court Ordered Mediation by saying, “Mediation is a needless consumption of time.” We couldn’t agree more.


Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

What make the army think Silver wilL render a final decision "once and for all"
If the East looses its back to the 9th boys....COUNT ON It

nicdoa
npjb

 

[Pi brat]

What make the army think Silver wilL render a final decision "once and for all"
If the East looses its back to the 9th boys....COUNT ON It

nicdoa
npjb

Shhh.....EF said so and that is all that matters. Besides, I asked that question on the first and I rained on their parade and they got really snippy. 🙂

Oh, and EF is not Elmer Fudd. I think.

 

[OTTER574]

What make the army think Silver wilL render a final decision "once and for all"
If the East looses its back to the 9th boys....COUNT ON It

nicdoa
npjb

The NIC is not on trial and never will be. It's the only legal list and will be implemented with a joint contract with lcc.

What's before Judge Silver is a CONTRACT called the TA and who must uphold that CONTRACT...company and union.

OTTER

 

[Pi brat]

The NIC is not on trial and never will be. It's the only legal list and will be implemented with a joint contract with lcc.

What's before Judge Silver is a CONTRACT called the TA and who must uphold that CONTRACT...company and union.

OTTER

That didn't answer his question OTTER.

 

[cleardirect]

What make the army think Silver wilL render a final decision "once and for all"
If the East looses its back to the 9th boys....COUNT ON It

nicdoa
npjb

Do you want to know why this will be the FINAL decision? Because the rest of the world is getting tired of the east antics.

THE COURT: And, Mr. Szymanski, anything else?
23 MR. SYZMANSKI: Your Honor, we have discussed in our
24 papers a request for mediation. But I assume that since the
25 opposition of the West class is that they don't see any reason 11:35:02
1 to participate, that the Court doesn't see any utility in that. 11:35:05
2 THE COURT: Everybody -- one side is going to stand
3 stiffly against the other. It doesn't make any sense. It's a
4 needless consumption of time. Thank you for raising that.
5 MR. SYZMANSKI: I appreciate that, Your Honor. 11:35:20
6 THE COURT: Mr. Harper?
7 MR. HARPER: We understand, Your Honor, and, yes, we
8 are. We are on board.
9 THE COURT: And so that is the way we'll go and we'll
10 see if we can resolve this case finally.

The court wants this done they have wasted to much time on you guys. The company is done with you guys they need to move on. This AA deal could be the final straw to stop playing games. Read the companies response to the court. The money people are getting sick of waiting for this BS to stop. This will end. What is it going to take for you guys to accept the inevitable?

The situation is going to run you over.

Appeal all you want. When the company gets a decision they are going to go with that. They are not going to wait around for the ninth. Besides, so what if the ninth says the company can negotiate something other than the Nicolau? Why would they? they know what they need to do. A DOH list with some C&R is more expensive than the Nicolau.

 

[Move2CLT]

I remember when we had that sort of banter Pi.

What happened to us? When did we grow apart?

 

[BoeingBoy]

If the East looses its back to the 9th boys....COUNT ON It

nicdoa
npjb

I don't think anyone doubts that. But I don't think Silver is dumb enough to stick her finger in the light socket of the DFR issue. I believe she'll rule based strictly on contract law and the company's rights/responsibilities laid out in the TA, which is pretty clear and which USAPA inherited. A combined seniority list was to be arrived at by a specified method and as long as it met the company's conditions it would be accepted. The combined list was constructed using the process specified, the company accepted it, and that all happened before USAPA was the CBA. Is Silver rules that the company has to use the combined list it officially said met the terms of the TA and thus has alrready accepted in accordance with the contract, what is USAPA going to claim? That it has a right to demand that the company violate the contract called the TA? That the company had it's fingers crossed behind it's back so didn't really accept the Nic? Nope, if Silver rules that the company has already legally accepted the Nic (which the 9th would likely affirm quickly), the company isn't going to agree to any other list.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

Where is it written one cannot wear the yellow lanyard? What cretin(s) decided that "word of mouth" is good enough?

Is that how the PHX girls do business? By word of mouth? Wearing mine all the time, especially in PHX.

Come out with something in writing or shutter it. Going to admit you are wrong?

You know, the pilots have a great lever but, like sheep, they continue to bow down to thieves and drunks. Amazing.

You are either a liar or a fool. Try reading your CBS messages? So here is the proof. Guess it will be you that will be shuttering it. As for how we do business. We do it very well. You east guys not so much.

But by all means you keep wearing your pretty yellow lanyard. Enjoy your time off.

TO: All Plots
FROM: Captain Lyle Hogg, Vice President Flight Operations

DATE: October 14, 2011

SUBJECT: LANYARDS AND BADGE BACKERS

Thanks to all who have complied with the new company policy, announced back on July 11th, to standardize ID badge lanyards to one company standard. While there are just a few pilots still not in compliance, the vast majority of pilots, both East and West, have readily accepted the new policy. We are very appreciative of everyone’s efforts, in all work groups, to eliminate the many differing types of lanyards that have been worn by many employees.

Please remember that the second requirement is to not wear ID badge backers that are not company issued. Whether they are “Cactus” badge backers or “Good Union Pilot” badge backers both reflect where a given pilot’s political views reside and are as equally divisive as the lanyard issue. Many claim to continue to wear these badge backers because they have specific phone numbers that can be easily referenced on the back of the card. We are in the process of publishing a list of needed phone numbers on card stock paper to be placed in each pilot’s one-inch binder for quick access. Phone numbers to be used in case of emergency can easily be placed in one’s cell phone for quick access as well.

I know this is a contentious issue and appreciate everyone’s understanding as we work through this policy shift. Eliminating the divisiveness created by these badge backers will allow us to all work together in order to resolve our differences. Specifically, resolving seniority integration and negotiating a combined contract that will benefit all.

Lyle Hogg
Vice President Flight Operations