US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CV580ETOPS]

Yup....I'm sure he's a real peach to fly with. Obviously I never had the pleasure of meeting him ,but he always seemed like the consumate gentleman from what I can gather from reading his posts on this webboard and others. Too bad you guys forced him to finish his career at less than narrowbody Air Tran pay by walking away from the joint negotiations several yers ago when we where still under the ALPA banner.

Poor Bob. Less than Air Tran pay to the last day 🙁

 

[AWA320]

Personally, I would have chosen the legal career over the flying job. Did I imply that you didn't pay your dues?

No you didn't indicate that at all so my stating it was not relevant. I should have gone to medical to tell you the truth but I took this intro flight one day and got hooked. I can have civil conversation with you on this forum which is something that it not possible with your brethren. I stated before that fragmentation not only would be the end of usairways it would also mark the end of most of the pilots as well. Fragmentation is the end results should there be no other merger and without another merger that is all usair would be good for.

AWA320

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You were finished before you got started NOSTRADAMUS. Just like your leash handlers changed their name to avoid so have you but we all know who you. Yeah its best you quit now as you were losing this battle anyway.

Next up oldie the butterball!!

AWA320

Actually, you're losing. DOH w/C&Rs will rule the day. Most are moving up significantly over here, and the "attrition train" hasn't even left the station.

Aholes like you just harden our resolve.

 

[AWA320]

Speaking of your "career", how are things out West? When is your next equipment Bid? When one of your pilots retires, what kind of move up does that create?

......now we are "malicious".......LMAO!!!!!!!!!!! Keep up the entertainment, PLEASE!!!!!!!

I know you are trying to be funny but there is one out and spoke to a ckairman yesterday and he told me that they have been told get ready to ramp up. I saw 8 of them in the crew lounge on my last trip dressd and flying. We have been getting message via maestro (catcrew for you) to make sure our perminate bids are up to date. Something is brewing!!

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

I know that you're a thief.

Traderjake call oldie butterball he likes that!

AWA320

 

[nycbusdriver]

ROACLT,

I am curious as to what you or your neighbors think about the following dicta: "under pain of an unquestionably ripe dfr" what in your opinion does that mean?

Any member, or even a non-member in the craft group, can sue its union for any perceived DFR. When ALPA gave away the domestic crew meals and that became part of the contract, I could have sued ALPA over that since it actually affected my job. But that doesn't mean I would win the lawsuit, but because my job was detrimentally affected by the action of my union, it would be ripe.

"Unquestionably ripe dfr" does not give any indication, nor sanction, of merit.

 

[AWA320]

Are you a leader in AOL? If so, and you are so confident, why not do everything humanly possible to get to DFR II?

Well I am not an AOL leader Pi and its clear to me and anyone who is not biased. The east employees from the pilots to you flight attendants are all biased. Everyone wants to see things there way and not the way they really are. This is more than evident in our case. We see people in the east talking about loopholes in order to avoid a mutually agreed upon process. One mind you the was written into our transition agreement with the company. The company has already accepted the list and they are genuinely concerned about being sued for breach, a suit that has teeth mind you, big ones.

In essence you can not make a deal then decide after all the papers are signed that you no longer like the deal and pull out. I willl call your attention to the east's failed merger with UAL in where Wolfe wrote into the contract the should UAL decide to pull out of the deal he would be paid x amount of millions for that breach. Do you remember what happened in that???

This battle has outlive its usefulness and its become one of not wanting to lose face or admit that they were wrong for pulling out of the deal.

AWA320

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Well I am not an AOL leader Pi and its clear to me and anyone who is not biased. The east employees from the pilots to you flight attendants are all biased. Everyone wants to see things there way and not the way they really are. This is more than evident in our case. We see people in the east talking about loopholes in order to avoid a mutually agreed upon process. One mind you the was written into our transition agreement with the company. The company has already accepted the list and they are genuinely concerned about being sued for breach, a suit that has teeth mind you, big ones.

In essence you can not make a deal then decide after all the papers are signed that you no longer like the deal and pull out. I willl call your attention to the east's failed merger with UAL in where Wolfe wrote into the contract the should UAL decide to pull out of the deal he would be paid x amount of millions for that breach. Do you remember what happened in that???

This battle has outlive its usefulness and its become one of not wanting to lose face or admit that they were wrong for pulling out of the deal.

AWA320

It's obvious to everybody that AWA320 is no leader. He's just a name calling juvenile.

Go to the next crew news session and ask Doug again what he meant by "accepting the list", since you didn't believe him last time he told you.

Those sorts of "breakup costs" are assessed in EVERY industry for practically EVERY merger that doesn't come to be. But, I wouldn't expect you to know that, just to make stuff up like you always do.

 

[AWA320]

Actually, you're losing. DOH w/C&Rs will rule the day. Most are moving up significantly over here, and the "attrition train" hasn't even left the station.

Aholes like you just harden our resolve.

Just show me how you legally get out of the case Butterball and I will let it go. Yup keep stealing and moving up and enjoy that time there because when the NIC finally does get implimented as it LEGALLY SHOULD we will be coming in packs and you will go from line holder to res.

I know you HOPE that someone out there will be able to pull the rabbit out of the hat that will allow you to avoid your contractual obligations but that aint gonna happen butterball which is why you are clueless as a stick of butter! Enjoy your thieft today because tomorrow brings reality...

AWA320

 

[nic4us]

"Unquestionably ripe dfr" does not give any indication, nor sanction, of merit.

But, continued reference to the dissenting opinion does.

The majority repeatedly tells usapa that their questions are answered, both in the Addington verdict and Bybee's dissenting opinion, if they travel the same road.

The 9th straight up warns usapa, you get this passed, you will lose. Yet Cleary walks in calls Parker a liar, says he is not abiding by the 9ths decision, and has to be told by corporate legal he is making a fool of himself. Where did Cleary get the idea that the 9th gave usapa a free pass to do whatever they please? It certainly is not anywhere in the majority opinion, quite the contrary.

We will not get to DFRII. Know why? Because unlike the idiot Seham followers at usapa, the company knows how to read. However, if by some quirk of fate with the NMB mediator, or Judge Silver, usapa gets a DOH contract ratified, "unquestionably ripe DFR" does mean usapa will suffer the "pain" of that failure of its DFR.

 

[AWA320]

It's obvious to everybody that AWA320 is no leader. He's just a name calling juvenile.

Go to the next crew news session and ask Doug again what he meant by "accepting the list", since you didn't believe him last time he told you.

Those sorts of "breakup costs" are assessed in EVERY industry for practically EVERY merger that doesn't come to be. But, I wouldn't expect you to know that, just to make stuff up like you always do.

Hahaha another crew news koolaid junkie huh butterball? We know them well and we also know that Parker plays fools like you for sport. I simply can not believe that you are really this clueless. We had a deal you broke it and now you expect sympathy. Fortunatly we also had a contract with LCC that has teeth so I dont see them being as underhanded as you and your friends.

Get your affairs in order butterball as your theif today will bring you reality tomorrow...

AWA320

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Just show me ho you legally get out of the case Butterball and I will let it go. Yup keep stealing and moving up and enjoy that time there because when the NIC finally does get implimented as it LEGALLY SHOULD we will be coming in packs and you will go from line holder to res.

I know you HOPE that someone out there will be able to pull the rabbit out of the hat that will allow you to avoid your contractual obligations but that aint gonna happen butterball which is why you are clueless as a stick of butter! Enjoy your thieft today because tomorrow brings reality...

AWA320

You're ingnorant. You need to educate yourself, not just keep dreaming of stealing someone else's job. Go watch the Crew News video again, especially the part where Doug tells you that he has to deal with the pilots' "bargaining unit". You know who that is, right? It's USAPA. USAPA DOES NOT recoginze the Nic, doesn't have to, and won't. It does have to recognize DOH with C&Rs, since it is in their constitution.

I'm really not at all worried about combining ops, except that if the intelligence of the West posters here is any indication of what we can expect from the west, it will be very difficult to have an intelligent conversation with my First Officer on the overnight.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

But, continued reference to the dissenting opinion does.

The majority repeatedly tells usapa that their questions are answered, both in the Addington verdict and Bybee's dissenting opinion, if they travel the same road.

The 9th straight up warns usapa, you get this passed, you will lose. Yet Cleary walks in calls Parker a liar, says he is not abiding by the 9ths decision, and has to be told by corporate legal he is making a fool of himself. Where did Cleary get the idea that the 9th gave usapa a free pass to do whatever they please? It certainly is not anywhere in the majority opinion, quite the contrary.

We will not get to DFRII. Know why? Because unlike the idiot Seham followers at usapa, the company knows how to read. However, if by some quirk of fate with the NMB mediator, or Judge Silver, usapa gets a DOH contract ratified, "unquestionably ripe DFR" does mean usapa will suffer the "pain" of that failure of its DFR.

Do you even know what credibility is given to a dissenting opinion? It means that his opinion was considered, and it was determiined by the court to be WRONG. It is not a precedent, it is, in a way, an "anti" precedent.

You guys are setting yourselves up for failure by relying on a dissenting opinion as the basis for your argument.

Again, a "ripe" DFR is not necessarily a "winning" DFR. In fact, even the Ninth mentioned the "wide range of reasonableness" that unions are allowed in negotiating for their members. If Judge Wake had applied that standard, as he should have, the case would have had a totally different result in the first place.

 

[AWA320]

You're ingnorant. You need to educate yourself, not just keep dreaming of stealing someone else's job. Go watch the Crew News video again, especially the part where Doug tells you that he has to deal with the pilots' "bargaining unit". You know who that is, right? It's USAPA. USAPA DOES NOT recoginze the Nic, doesn't have to, and won't. It does have to recognize DOH with C&Rs, since it is in their constitution.

I'm really not at all worried about combining ops.

I am not trying to steal your job buttberball but I am going to insist that you honor your deal. I can assure you that I am far more educated than you my good sir! You keep believing that you can honor which parts of the contract you desire and which you dont and it will hurt even worse when the final 2x4 lands on that thick skull of yours.

There will be no DOH Butterball as you will never get LCC to sign off on that because the courts will be unable to grant indemnity to LCC from our massive lawsuits. Once LCC says the nic is here to stay then your fight willbe two fold for which I can see your response will be to stall in hopes of that attrition BUT I can see LCC's response as well with a huge amount of TDY west pilots on the way to pick up your slack. Please continue to be stupid and backing yourselves further into the corner.

AWA320

 

[cleardirect]

Are you a leader in AOL? If so, and you are so confident, why not do everything humanly possible to get to DFR II?

The west has nothing to do with usapa getting a contract or not. The east has the majority. The east controls the union. The east has all of the negotiators. The west has no say in this at all.

So if you want a contract and want to get on with it. Call your rep or Cleary or someone and get going. This is all on the east. We are along for the ride.