US Pilots Labor Discussion

[AWA320]

Do you even know what credibility is given to a dissenting opinion? It means that his opinion was considered, and it was determiined by the court to be WRONG. It is not a precedent, it is, in a way, an "anti" precedent.

You guys are setting yourselves up for failure by relying on a dissenting opinion as the basis for your argument.

Again, a "ripe" DFR is not necessarily a "winning" DFR. In fact, even the Ninth mentioned the "wide range of reasonableness" that unions are allowed in negotiating for their members. If Judge Wake had applied that standard, as he should have, the case would have had a totally different result in the first place.

Here you go butterball, read it all and get the clue before you go off on another tangent.

dissenting opinion is the opinion of a judge of a court of appeals, including the U.S. Supreme Court, which disagrees with the majority opinion. When more than one judge dissents, often one will write the dissenting opinion and the other judge(s) will join their names to it. Other times, different judges may write their own dissenting opinions, especially when they dissent for different reasons.

Over time as the social climate or law evolves, a dissent may eventually prevail. For example, for years now, many federal judges have taken a stand against mandatory minimum sentences. A majority haved called for outright abolition of mandatory sentencing. Some senior federal judges have refused to hear drug cases because of the long sentences they are bound by law to give defendants. Many federal judges are recording their dissent.


AWA320

 

[767one]

Yup....I'm sure he's a real peach to fly with. Obviously I never had the pleasure to meet him ,but he always seemed like the consumate gentlelman from what I gathered from reading his posts on this webboard and others. Too bad you guys forced him to finish his carrer at less than narrobody Air Tran pay by walking away from the joint negotiations several yers ago when we ahere still under the ALPA banner.

Poor Bob. Less than Air Tran pay to the last day 🙁

CV580ETOPS,

I don't know if you are referring to me (Bob Moore) as poor Bob. If that is the case don't worry about "poor Bob" working for less that Air Tran pay. I have my choice of trips #1 on the 75/76 and since my almost retirement in 2007 I have been getting my pbgc monies. Now one thing you should understand is that the maximum payment for pbgc is not in the 40,000's range but can be a good bit higher and mine is higher due to the fact I had 30 years of service when our plan was terminated. I actually sap low to have more days off and it also sends some good trips to those junior to me. Bottom line is I'm working mostly for the medical bennies (my wife has very expensive IV therapy 2 days amonth) and I still like airplanes and those work work around them.

I like your CV580ETOPS name, the CV580 was my first aircraft when I started with Allegheny in "73".

Regards,

Bob Moore

 

[nycbusdriver]

Answer: Insanity. Repeating the same behavior while expecting a different result.

Have you ever driven around the block a few times looking for a parking space?

Then found one on the third or fourth circuit?

Then, is it insanity to drive around the block looking for a parking space?

Kind of blows your out-of-context "truthiness" all to hell, doesn't it?

When Einstein said those words he was referring to closely controlled laboratory conditions that were virtually identical each time, not real life situations where the conditions are NEVER the same twice.

 

[Pi brat]

The west has nothing to do with usapa getting a contract or not. The east has the majority. The east controls the union. The east has all of the negotiators. The west has no say in this at all.

So if you want a contract and want to get on with it. Call your rep or Cleary or someone and get going. This is all on the east. We are along for the ride.

READ! Where did I say anything about the contract? I just want the whole thing over.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

The west has nothing to do with usapa getting a contract or not. The east has the majority. The east controls the union. The east has all of the negotiators. The west has no say in this at all.

So if you want a contract and want to get on with it. Call your rep or Cleary or someone and get going. This is all on the east. We are along for the ride.

The COMPANY has stopped meaningful negotiations until their DJ lawsuit is heard, not USAPA.

The fact that the west has no input in the NC is by their own choice. If you're not gonna participate in making the contract better, you get what you get. Crossing your arms and sticking out your lower lip has NEVER solved anything. It is, however, the way children deal with things.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Here you go butterball, read it all and get the clue before you go off on another tangent.

dissenting opinion is the opinion of a judge of a court of appeals, including the U.S. Supreme Court, which disagrees with the majority opinion. When more than one judge dissents, often one will write the dissenting opinion and the other judge(s) will join their names to it. Other times, different judges may write their own dissenting opinions, especially when they dissent for different reasons.

Over time as the social climate or law evolves, a dissent may eventually prevail. For example, for years now, many federal judges have taken a stand against mandatory minimum sentences. A majority haved called for outright abolition of mandatory sentencing. Some senior federal judges have refused to hear drug cases because of the long sentences they are bound by law to give defendants. Many federal judges are recording their dissent.


AWA320

So what? Laws get changed ALL THE TIME. Interpretation of laws gets changed everyday.

You really are clueless. Go grow up. I'm not worried about the labor laws being changed because of one "ripeness" case. You can believe whatever helps you make it through the day.

And, by referring to me as "butterball", that as you consume your holiday meal you remember me and all the SENIOR East pilots that have worked in this industry much longer than most of the West guys. Thank you for the tribute!

 

[Pi brat]

CV580ETOPS,

I don't know if you are referring to me (Bob Moore) as poor Bob. If that is the case don't worry about "poor Bob" working for less that Air Tran pay. I have my choice of trips #1 on the 75/76 and since my almost retirement in 2007 I have been getting my pbgc monies. Now one thing you should understand is that the maximum payment for pbgc is not in the 40,000's range but can be a good bit higher and mine is higher due to the fact I had 30 years of service when our plan was terminated. I actually sap low to have more days off and it also sends some good trips to thoses junior to me. Bottom line is I'm working mostly for the medical bennies (my wife has very expensive IV therapy 2 days amonth) and I still like airplanes and those work work around them.

I like your CV580ETOPS name, the CV580 was my first aircraft when I started with Allegheny in "73".

Regards,

Bob Moore

And he is a class act gentleman that a lot could learn from.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

READ! Where did I say anything about the contract? I just want the whole thing over.

Since they can't make their argument any other way they have to resort to putting words in people's mouths and making stuff up.

Showing my age here, but does anybody remember that Art Linkletter show, "Kids Say the Darndest Things"? Reminds me of that.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Actually, you're losing. DOH w/C&Rs will rule the day. Most are moving up significantly over here, and the "attrition train" hasn't even left the station.

Aholes like you just harden our resolve.

Just talked to a good friend who was hired in 2001. Last bid he was very close to an E190 captain bid, and just a few hundred short of an A330 F/O. He's quite happy with the movement they are seeing at the bottom.

Now that the nearly superannuated among us are approaching their 63rd birthday, those with full sick banks will start to get the 24-month flu and things will really get into high gear around here.

 

[CallawayGolf]

And he is a class act gentleman that a lot could learn from.

Claiming that someone who endorses breaking contractual agreements is a "class act" is an oxymoron. You simply cannot break your agreements to the harm of the other party and still be considered a class act. If you have ever been in the situation where you suffered harm by someone else breaking their agreements, I doubt you would ever call that person a “class act”.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I know you are trying to be funny but there is one out and spoke to a ckairman yesterday and he told me that they have been told get ready to ramp up. I saw 8 of them in the crew lounge on my last trip dressd and flying. We have been getting message via maestro (catcrew for you) to make sure our perminate bids are up to date. Something is brewing!!

AWA320

Only the naive believe rumors from the training department. Yeah. Something is always brewing with those check airman types.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Black's Law Dictionary.

ACCEPT. To receive with approval or
satisfaction; to receive with intent to retain;
Also, In the capacity of drawee of a bill, to
recognize the draft, and engage to pay it
when due.

This says nothing about intention to actually USE it. It was received with approval only in that it met the criteria for not increasing training costs.

Who has not "accepted" something and retained it with no intention of ever using it? Like that hand-knitted teapot cozy you got from Aunt Sally for your birthday.

 

[cleardirect]

Do you even know what credibility is given to a dissenting opinion? It means that his opinion was considered, and it was determiined by the court to be WRONG. It is not a precedent, it is, in a way, an "anti" precedent.

You guys are setting yourselves up for failure by relying on a dissenting opinion as the basis for your argument.

Again, a "ripe" DFR is not necessarily a "winning" DFR. In fact, even the Ninth mentioned the "wide range of reasonableness" that unions are allowed in negotiating for their members. If Judge Wake had applied that standard, as he should have, the case would have had a totally different result in the first place.

So do dissenting opinion have credibility or not? Are dissenting opinions considered or not?

CONCURRING AND DISSENTING OPINION
Captain James P. Brucia, Pilot Neutral

You know the dissenting opinion in the Nicolau award that Seham keeps bringing up. Does that have a credibility? According to you if a ninth circuit judge does not matter than I guess a pilot neutral does not matter either.

Would you mind posting an open letter to Seham and usapa and ask then to stop referring to some dissenting opinion.

You guys are setting yourselves up for failure by relying on a dissenting opinion as the basis for your argument.

I love when your situation ethics get in the way or your argument. Are you setting yourself up for failure.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

So do dissenting opinion have credibility or not? Are dissenting opinions considered or not?


You know the dissenting opinion in the Nicolau award that Seham keeps bringing up. Does that have a credibility? According to you if a ninth circuit judge does not matter than I guess a pilot neutral does not matter either.

Would you mind posting an open letter to Seham and usapa and ask then to stop referring to some dissenting opinion.


I love when your situation ethics get in the way or your argument. Are you setting yourself up for failure.

It hasn't had any so far. He can refer to whatever he wants. He DOES keep kicking your butts to the tune of a couple o' mil.

By the way, the "INTERNAL UNION PROCESS" is NOT the same as a court of law, as you are finding out. Apples and oranges.

You guys don't help your credibility when you use nonsensical examples to make your point.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

This says nothing about intention to actually USE it. It was received with approval only in that it met the criteria for not increasing training costs.

Who has not "accepted" something and retained it with no intention of ever using it? Like that hand-knitted teapot cozy you got from Aunt Sally for your birthday.

So Ames made something up again. No surprise here.