US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

The COMPANY has stopped meaningful negotiations until their DJ lawsuit is heard, not USAPA.

The fact that the west has no input in the NC is by their own choice. If you're not gonna participate in making the contract better, you get what you get. Crossing your arms and sticking out your lower lip has NEVER solved anything. It is, however, the way children deal with things.

So you are admitting that usapa has allowed the company to control the negotiations? I thought that the union and the company were equal at the table. Makes usapa like very weak. Or is that just an excuse that usapa is unable to produce ANYTHING!

You mean like when the east pilots whined and picked up your ball and went home when the Nicolau came out. Because you did not get what you wanted?

You mean like the way the east children handled things?

 

[cleardirect]

READ! Where did I say anything about the contract? I just want the whole thing over.

Just how do you think this is going to end? With a contract. That is the only way we are going to get to DFR II or did you miss that part? That is it. There will be no fragmentation like some of you are hoping for. There will be no never ending separate ops.

It is over with a joint contract. usapa is unable to get the contract. usapa is east pilots.

 

[cleardirect]

Since they can't make their argument any other way they have to resort to putting words in people's mouths and making stuff up.

Showing my age here, but does anybody remember that Art Linkletter show, "Kids Say the Darndest Things"? Reminds me of that.

Are you a leader in AOL? If so, and you are so confident, why not do everything humanly possible to get to DFR II?

This is what he said. You guys are so smart and love to tell us what the ninth said. How is the only possible way to get to DFR II?

WITH A CONTRACT!!!! So maybe you need to rethink your remark about putting words in peoples mouths and understand statements in context.

The only way to get to DFR II is with a contract. I said that it is the fault of east pilots and usapa. Fro him to say that he never said contract is just ignorant. And for you to try and defend that statement makes you look even more foolish.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

This is what he said. You guys are so smart and love to tell us what the ninth said. How is the only possible way to get to DFR II?

WITH A CONTRACT!!!! So maybe you need to rethink your remark about putting words in peoples mouths and understand statements in context.

The only way to get to DFR II is with a contract. I said that it is the fault of east pilots and usapa. Fro him to say that he never said contract is just ignorant. And for you to try and defend that statement makes you look even more foolish.

I actually agree with you on the requirements for a "DFR II". I don't get the rest of this, since I wasn't referring to your post at all. But, there are NUMEROUS examples of some posters "reengineering" the posts of others to change the context.

Yes, we need a new contract. No doubt about it. Also no doubt about the company's continued attempt to keep the status quo.

 

[AWA320]

Have you ever driven around the block a few times looking for a parking space?

Then found one on the third or fourth circuit?

Then, is it insanity to drive around the block looking for a parking space?

Kind of blows your out-of-context "truthiness" all to hell, doesn't it?

When Einstein said those words he was referring to closely controlled laboratory conditions that were virtually identical each time, not real life situations where the conditions are NEVER the same twice.

Not really. You see most people have better things to do rather than trying to CHERRY PICK a space right up front. Because of that level of insanity you miss the first 5 min of the movie, or you are late for that appt. To put this is terms you MIGHT understand, the stalling waiting on that spot up front you allow tiny carriers like spirit to our earn you and from a narrow body at that. The stalling causes you to mis economic windows because you have to keep driving around while others are already inside. Ins't that the moto of the east last in everything??? That's whats insane, kinda blows YOUR out of context truthiness all to hell now doesn't it???

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

So what? Laws get changed ALL THE TIME. Interpretation of laws gets changed everyday.

You really are clueless. Go grow up. I'm not worried about the labor laws being changed because of one "ripeness" case. You can believe whatever helps you make it through the day.

And, by referring to me as "butterball", that as you consume your holiday meal you remember me and all the SENIOR East pilots that have worked in this industry much longer than most of the West guys. Thank you for the tribute!

I know this is a lot to absorb but try ok. Laws are changed yes and that is where we get whats known in the legal profession as CASE LAW. Some cases are precedent setting as this one might. You are testing the laws governing arbitrations and you must remember that sword can cut both ways. There could be a case where you win the battle and ultimatly lose the major war which in this case is bad for every union employee in this country. I am sorry you dont see that.

Now as for butterball it is not a term of endearment. If the east, you were someone of integrity then I could do that but you certainly are not that. The east in my book, though I wish no real ill will I still find most of you repugnant due to how you have behaved and treated us in the west. You have no honor so while I am sitting home during the holidays enjoying family and thankful that we have all survived another year on this earth I will be thinking of the young men and women that are serving our country and away from their families. They have honor butterball for them I have the utomost respect, for the east I have nothing but contempt.

AWA320

 

[nycbusdriver]

Not really. You see most people have better things to do rather than trying to CHERRY PICK a space right up front. Because of that level of insanity you miss the first 5 min of the movie, or you are late for that appt. To put this is terms you MIGHT understand, the stalling waiting on that spot up front you allow tiny carriers like spirit to our earn you and from a narrow body at that. The stalling causes you to mis economic windows because you have to keep driving around while others are already inside. Ins't that the moto of the east last in everything??? That's whats insane, kinda blows YOUR out of context truthiness all to hell now doesn't it???

AWA320

Sure. Answer by changing the subject to getting the "space up front." Typical rebuttal tactic when you have nothing.

But, we on the east HAVE the space of front. And we intend to keep it. Keep driving around that PHX courthouse, though.

Enjoy it.

 

[AWA320]

Only the naive believe rumors from the training department. Yeah. Something is always brewing with those check airman types.

Good point!! Yet there is that little thing when we log on that says "make sure your perm bid is up to date and on file". I guess the computer took a page out of the east play book and started lying...

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

Sure. Answer by changing the subject to getting the "space up front." Typical rebuttal tactic when you have nothing.

But, we on the east HAVE the space of front. And we intend to keep it. Keep driving around that PHX courthouse, though.

Enjoy it.

Hey it was your example to use driving around in circles, I could have said like chasing your own tail. The sad part is you dont see the missle being ready for launch and you're firmly missing the fact that this place could go away for real. You're old which means your time has come and gone. The LCC equation doesnt even have you in it because you are on the sidelines hoping that usapa can get you some sort of retirement. The truth is you dont gave a damn one way or the other you just want something more than the PBGC and if the west came in with an offer to give you a pension you would sell out it a NY MINUTE!

Liars and cheats never learn. Be true to thy self!!!

AWA320

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

I know this is a lot to absorb but try ok. Laws are changed yes and that is where we get whats known in the legal profession as CASE LAW. Some cases are precedent setting as this one might. You are testing the laws governing arbitrations and you must remember that sword can cut both ways. There could be a case where you win the battle and ultimatly lose the major war which in this case is bad for every union employee in this country. I am sorry you dont see that.

Now as for butterball it is not a term of endearment. If the east, you were someone of integrity then I could do that but you certainly are not that. The east in my book, though I wish no real ill will I still find most of you repugnant due to how you have behaved and treated us in the west. You have no honor so while I am sitting home during the holidays enjoying family and thankful that we have all survived another year on this earth I will be thinking of the young men and women that are serving our country and away from their families. They have honor butterball for them I have the utomost respect, for the east I have nothing but contempt.

AWA320

Do you really believe the drivel you just wrote? You won't be doing any of the things you describe over the holidays, more likely you will be railing against the world in a bitter place and dragging your family and friends along for the ride. You will spend the days waxing how your vast experience and dues paying at Tran States and Air Wisconsin have earned you the right to be instantly gratified to what others have worked decades for and sacrificed much to preserve. Of course you couldn't be cognizant of the fact their sacrifices also benefited you because you now work for an airline that is sustainable because of the East Assets. No it will more likely be bar graphs and ratios and arguments of law, spewing contempt and hatred because you didn't get your way and get it right now like a three year old stomping his feet. So save the moral lecturing or take a little yourself because your obsessive posting about morality leaves great doubt that your mind will be on Jesus Christ or troops in the field, more likely bitterly thinking how the East pilot group and the world has denied you instant gratification. For one to speak about truthfulness, its to bad you can't even be honest with yourself.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I actually agree with you on the requirements for a "DFR II". I don't get the rest of this, since I wasn't referring to your post at all. But, there are NUMEROUS examples of some posters "reengineering" the posts of others to change the context.

Yes, we need a new contract. No doubt about it. Also no doubt about the company's continued attempt to keep the status quo.

You can't blame Management for all the years of status quo. It's the east pilots and USAPA who are solely responsible for that. If USAPA announced today that they were finally accepting the unmodified NIC for section 22, negotiations would hasten quickly toward a TA. You and so many others are convinced that Management is stalling and that the east pilots would never ratify a TA with the NIC, but you never put your money where your mouth is. Why don’t you prove us all wrong by calling Management's and West pilots bluff (that exist only in your minds) and see what negotiating for the NIC will achieve. Of course you won't because you know or fear that Management would gladly move to a JCBA if seniority was no longer contested by USAPA. Likewise you also know or fear that many east and west pilots would ratify a TA with the NIC if the other sections of the contract were in line with expectations. It’s all a snake oil sleight of hand game with USAPA and most everyone who pays attention knows it.

 

[AWA320]

You can't blame Management for all the years of status quo. It's the east pilots and USAPA who are solely responsible for that. If USAPA announced today that they were finally accepting the unmodified NIC for section 22, negotiations would hasten quickly toward a TA. You and so many others are convinced that Management is stalling and that the east pilots would never ratify a TA with the NIC, but you never put your money where your mouth is. Why don’t you prove us all wrong by calling Management's and West pilots bluff (that exist only in your minds) and see what negotiating for the NIC will achieve. Of course you won't because you know or fear that Management would gladly move to a JCBA if seniority was no longer contested by USAPA. Likewise you also know or fear that many east and west pilots would ratify a TA with the NIC if the other sections of the contract were in line with expectations. It’s all a snake oil sleight of hand game with USAPA and most everyone who pays attention knows it.

Because its so much easier to blame everyone else, that move the east has down cold.

AWA320

 

[Pi brat]

Just how do you think this is going to end? With a contract. That is the only way we are going to get to DFR II or did you miss that part? That is it. There will be no fragmentation like some of you are hoping for. There will be no never ending separate ops.

It is over with a joint contract. usapa is unable to get the contract. usapa is east pilots.

My Lord, if you were only 1/4 as smart as you think you are. I know what it will take to finish it, it's just that getting a contract is not the main thing driving me.

Why do you add so many other comments in your responses to me? Such as: "usapa is unable to get the contract. usapa is east pilots"

 

[Pi brat]

Claiming that someone who endorses breaking contractual agreements is a "class act" is an oxymoron. You simply cannot break your agreements to the harm of the other party and still be considered a class act. If you have ever been in the situation where you suffered harm by someone else breaking their agreements, I doubt you would ever call that person a “class act”.

You know what brings me a little pleasure with your posts? You claim to be a Christian, so I picture when you have answer for what is written in the Book. I think you are in for a surpirse.

 

[Pi brat]

Since they can't make their argument any other way they have to resort to putting words in people's mouths and making stuff up.

Showing my age here, but does anybody remember that Art Linkletter show, "Kids Say the Darndest Things"? Reminds me of that.

Yeah, I remember it and I think you got it right!

I think some of them are starting to slip.