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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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"us"? I had the impression you weren't a US pilot. Did I get that wrong?

In a word, yes, I'm sorry if I gave that impression, but I am stuck in the middle of this "soap opera" just like everyone else. I have been a longtime "lurker", but fairly computer illiterate, so it has taken me a very long time to work up the courage to try to post anything online. I feel like I could not possibly be compensated enough for having to do distance leaning. Because of that, I apologize for the joke about distance learning. I did not realize how easy it can be to be misunderstood. My attempt at levity could be construed as insulting.

I am, however, deeply fascinated by aviation safety, and the fortuitous opportunity to study distressed carriers and safety with distinct diverse subject groups from the inside out is irresistable. Historically, aviation safety is so good that incidents seldom provide statistically significant data. US safety data is so striking that I do believe that there is something to be gleaned from our respective incident records.

I appreciate all the personalities on this forum and am trying to reconcile all the vitriol and vehemence, with my experiences and conversations with my co-workers, east jumpseaters, jumpseat rides on east metal, etc. It appears to me that this forum may elucidate the boundaries of group thought, with a "silent majority" somewhere in between. Thank you for your efforts at moderation. I do believe we will inhabit the same flight decks someday and must do it safely.

May the wind always be at your back.
 
I hope you don't. I hope none of us do, east or west. However if you do, Heaven forbid, it's a bit harder to live down after you've made fun of others for it.

I don't care about the politcal bs, when it comes to operating airplanes, we are all the same thing. Some things should just be off limits, and this is one of them.
The east had got a heck of a record going. And that's only looking back to our merger date.

Why is it they have so many accidents and incidents?

And when you compare it to the west ops...
 
In a word, yes, I'm sorry if I gave that impression, but I am stuck in the middle of this "soap opera" just like everyone else. I have been a longtime "lurker", but fairly computer illiterate, so it has taken me a very long time to work up the courage to try to post anything online. I feel like I could not possibly be compensated enough for having to do distance leaning. Because of that, I apologize for the joke about distance learning. I did not realize how easy it can be to be misunderstood. My attempt at levity could be construed as insulting.

I am, however, deeply fascinated by aviation safety, and the fortuitous opportunity to study distressed carriers and safety with distinct diverse subject groups from the inside out is irresistable. Historically, aviation safety is so good that incidents seldom provide statistically significant data. US safety data is so striking that I do believe that there is something to be gleaned from our respective incident records.

I appreciate all the personalities on this forum and am trying to reconcile all the vitriol and vehemence, with my experiences and conversations with my co-workers, east jumpseaters, jumpseat rides on east metal, etc. It appears to me that this forum may elucidate the boundaries of group thought, with a "silent majority" somewhere in between. Thank you for your efforts at moderation. I do believe we will inhabit the same flight decks someday and must do it safely.

May the wind always be at your back.

I came to that conclusion, but it may have been my mistake, not anything you did. I figured it was easier to ask than dig through pages of posts.

I think you got it right about this board having the boundaries of the group, and I can think of a few that are way, way outside the boundaries 🙂
 
Not a rumor and not damaging to me.

Well, whatever it is, it's not true according to the guy I talked to, and he should know better than you or me. It doesn't need to be spread. I took you at your word that it did not originate with you. Is that true? If not, you need to stop spreading lies.
 
I hope you don't. I hope none of us do, east or west. However if you do, Heaven forbid, it's a bit harder to live down after you've made fun of others for it.

I don't care about the politcal bs, when it comes to operating airplanes, we are all the same thing. Some things should just be off limits, and this is one of them.

I agree and thanks for your support on this issue.
 
Midwest flight attendants win appeal in seniority case
11/30/2011


Nov 30 (Reuters) - Republic Airlines and its Teamsters union unlawfully deprived hundreds of former Midwest Airlines flight attendants of their job seniority when the two airlines merged, a federal appeals court ruled on Wednesday.


The 7th Circuit Court of Appeals found that Republic failed to honor the Midwest flight attendants' seniority rights when it purchased the airline's parent company Midwest Air Group in 2009. Federal law requires airlines to integrate employees' seniority when two carriers merge.


The Midwest flight attendants sued Republic and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters in 2010, accusing the airline and its union of forcing hundreds of Midwest flight attendants into prolonged unemployment.


While Republic integrated the seniority lists for Midwest mechanics, baggage handlers and administrative employees, the company furloughed the flight attendants, requiring them to apply for new jobs with Republic. If they were hired, they came on at the bottom of the seniority roster, according to the court opinion.


The Midwest flight attendants sued under the McCaskill-Bond Amendment to the Federal Aviation Act, which requires air carriers to merge their employee seniority lists when they combine.


Republic and the Teamsters argued that the transaction was not a merger. Instead of acquiring an air carrier, Republic had rather acquired some assets related to air transportation, they argued. Soon after the purchase, Republic returned Midwest's nine leased planes to Boeing and abandoned Midwest's flying certificate from federal regulators. Republic did, however, take over Midwest's air routes.


The district court ruled in favor of Republic and the Teamsters, concluding that the federal law was never meant to protect the employees of an air carrier that "simply goes out of business." But the 7th Circuit disagreed.


"One cannot remove bankrupt and soon-to-disappear carriers from the statute's coverage, as the Teamsters propose, without simultaneously circumventing the statutory text and frustrating the design behind it," Judge Frank Easterbrook wrote for the three-judge panel. The court noted that the federal law requiring seniority integration itself grew out of American Airlines' acquisition of Trans World Airlines, which was bankrupt and on the brink of closing down.


Marianne Robbins, a lawyer for Republic and the Teamsters, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Republic and the Teamsters' Airline Division did not immediately return calls for comment.


Edward Gilmartin, General Counsel for the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA and a lawyer for the Midwest flight attendants, said the 7th Circuit was the first appellate court to address the issue. The court "firmly established that once two carriers merge, there must be a fair and equitable seniority integration for the workers," he said. 😱


Most of the four-hundred Midwest flight attendants were furloughed without pay, Gilmartin said. Some, with decades of experience, took jobs at Republic as new hires.


The case is Committee of Concerned Midwest Flight Attendants for Fair and Equitable Seniority Integration et al v. International Brotherhood of Teamsters Airline Division et al, U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit, No. 11-1921.


For the Midwest flight attendants: Jeffrey Bartos and Paul Knupp of Guerrieri, Clayman, Bartos & Parcelli; Edward Gilmartin of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA.

It's interesting what you chose to highlight out of that whole article. Consistent of you, but interesting.
 
Randy Mowrey is the VP who Lee Seham has accused of allegedly writing "improper emails". Gary Hummel is the EVP that USAPA has indicated that there is an agenda item for "action regarding alleged EVP breaches of confidentiality, duties, responsibilities and fiduciary obligations to USAPA."

Does anybody ever wonder why managmenet does not respect USAPA, the union loses virtually every court decision except one based on a technicality called "ripeness", US Airways' pilots are the highest union taxed pilots in the entire U.S. and US Airways' pilots have the worst contract? Again, it's not the name on the union door that's the problem. The problem is the union leadership, the people who support the union leadership, and those who elect the same people or same type of people over-and-over again. As we all know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Said the guy that could not get elected to an ALPA position and is a non-member with USAPA, thus unable to to anything to change it.
 
Are you for real? Do even know the ALPA give backs that they traded for the paltry payouts you speak of? ALPA has a long and successful history of enriching themselves and management via professional pilot wage reductions and numerous concessions. If you want to praise ALPA I'm all ears. I love a comedian.:lol:

I'll ask again. Please give a Yes or No answer.

Did you receive a series of lump sum payments? Profit sharing? Did USAPA get those for you? Has USAPA secured any financial increases across the board for their membership?

Do you realize that they (as a national union with influence) provided the original contract provisions from which your pilot group chose to concede? What has USAPA provided for the pilot group at large that is worth $8M per year? ALPA is gone, please defend USAPA's continued existence.
 
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