US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fifidriver]

Congratulations to the east.

We can add to your list of accomplishments the following:

You have had a tail strike on every single 321 you fly.

From the rookies out west we say to the pros out east, "keep up the great work."

Is this a fact, or you just toying with the east contingent?

 

[Barrister]

As i said before, i am done arguing on this board over USAPA this NIC that or whatever. It is pointless. The die is already cast, we are 6 years into this and no matter what we do or say here the lawsuits are going to fly no matter which way it goes. And I have always said on here that Doug CAN get NIC voted in anytime he wants, its just a matter of how much he is willing to pay. However it comes out i will keep plugging along, mergers both the good and bad parts are something that the east pilots know very well. This one is no different in that respect.

My response to you was to answer "exactly" as you termed it how I thought an integrated list would be very bad for the west. From seeing it before i think Tempe really wants to transfer a bunch of a/c and pilots east. Otherwise they would be adding time out west and hiring out there, which they are perfectly capable of doing today. They are not. instead they are hiring to the east and we don't have anybody retiring yet due to age.

My comments on how bad commuting is comes from personal experience doing short one hour commutes up and down the east coast. Even if I were an f/o today that could hold a Captain bid in PHX there is no way in hell I would bid it unless I was prepared to move to PHX. Even just up and down the east coast there were several years that I literally slept in the crashpad and hotel bed more than I did my own bed.

To your base change taking a year. Once the transition agreement is done it can be fast. I have had a couple instances in my career that say February I was happy as a lark driving from home to work and come April I am a commuter again, in the same seat and aircraft. Being forced to another base is as simple as the stroke of a pen. Last time it happened was to the 190 guys in 2009. December they were CLT based. January 2010 they were PHL based.

Simple as say, bid 05-12 One month bid, 30 319's being moved to PHL to support schedule. If you are too junior to hold phx you have 2 choices, commute to PHL or resign. Poof your seat in PHX no longer exists. In those cases it is nothing like the closure of BOS or LAS, there are no "moving money clauses etc. You are told thats where you are and you get an extra 4 days off for moving. Thats it. been there dont it. It sucks.
[/quote

And you westies like to tell us you aren't comimg east. Wrong...some of you will. PHX will most likely
never close but most likely will downsize. Then you will come east. But not with NIC.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Pi brat]

Is this a fact, or you just toying with the east contingent?
[/quote

This poster has a habit of pulling things out of his rear.

 

[Move2CLT]

Is this a fact, or you just toying with the east contingent?

Fact and can be easily verified by the training department.

 

[Move2CLT]

Is this a fact, or you just toying with the east contingent?

This poster has a habit of pulling things out of his rear.

And this poster has a habit of talking out of his rear, not liking what he hears, and then running off for weeks at time to pout.

 

[Move2CLT]

Hey, nice grammar!!!

I'll give you a second to wipe that chicken grease off your lips.

OK, ready?

OK, if you want to play grammar cop we can start up now. But I think most of us here (east and west) have moved beyond that.

Can you?

Now back to your bucket.

 

[Move2CLT]

Agenda item from the latest BPR Special Meeting Notice:

- Action regarding alleged EVP breaches of confidentiality, duties, responsibilities and fiduciary obligations to USAPA

And now Cleary goes after another eastie. And to think you guys worried about us trying to destroy USAPA!!! Carry on.

I can't wait to cast my vote for Mike. I just hope Mowrey stays in the game too. I like when he assaults other officers.

Self destruction of USAPA has been initiated and will occur in 5...4...3...2...

 

[Move2CLT]

For those that want to keep up-

http://compasscorrectioncoalition.com/

 

[prechilill]

Midwest flight attendants win appeal in seniority case
11/30/2011


Nov 30 (Reuters) - Republic Airlines and its Teamsters union unlawfully deprived hundreds of former Midwest Airlines flight attendants of their job seniority when the two airlines merged, a federal appeals court ruled on Wednesday.


The 7th Circuit Court of Appeals found that Republic failed to honor the Midwest flight attendants' seniority rights when it purchased the airline's parent company Midwest Air Group in 2009. Federal law requires airlines to integrate employees' seniority when two carriers merge.


The Midwest flight attendants sued Republic and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters in 2010, accusing the airline and its union of forcing hundreds of Midwest flight attendants into prolonged unemployment.


While Republic integrated the seniority lists for Midwest mechanics, baggage handlers and administrative employees, the company furloughed the flight attendants, requiring them to apply for new jobs with Republic. If they were hired, they came on at the bottom of the seniority roster, according to the court opinion.


The Midwest flight attendants sued under the McCaskill-Bond Amendment to the Federal Aviation Act, which requires air carriers to merge their employee seniority lists when they combine.


Republic and the Teamsters argued that the transaction was not a merger. Instead of acquiring an air carrier, Republic had rather acquired some assets related to air transportation, they argued. Soon after the purchase, Republic returned Midwest's nine leased planes to Boeing and abandoned Midwest's flying certificate from federal regulators. Republic did, however, take over Midwest's air routes.


The district court ruled in favor of Republic and the Teamsters, concluding that the federal law was never meant to protect the employees of an air carrier that "simply goes out of business." But the 7th Circuit disagreed.


"One cannot remove bankrupt and soon-to-disappear carriers from the statute's coverage, as the Teamsters propose, without simultaneously circumventing the statutory text and frustrating the design behind it," Judge Frank Easterbrook wrote for the three-judge panel. The court noted that the federal law requiring seniority integration itself grew out of American Airlines' acquisition of Trans World Airlines, which was bankrupt and on the brink of closing down.


Marianne Robbins, a lawyer for Republic and the Teamsters, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Republic and the Teamsters' Airline Division did not immediately return calls for comment.


Edward Gilmartin, General Counsel for the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA and a lawyer for the Midwest flight attendants, said the 7th Circuit was the first appellate court to address the issue. The court "firmly established that once two carriers merge, there must be a fair and equitable seniority integration for the workers," he said. 😱


Most of the four-hundred Midwest flight attendants were furloughed without pay, Gilmartin said. Some, with decades of experience, took jobs at Republic as new hires.


The case is Committee of Concerned Midwest Flight Attendants for Fair and Equitable Seniority Integration et al v. International Brotherhood of Teamsters Airline Division et al, U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit, No. 11-1921.


For the Midwest flight attendants: Jeffrey Bartos and Paul Knupp of Guerrieri, Clayman, Bartos & Parcelli; Edward Gilmartin of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA.

 

[USA320Pilot]

BPR Special Meeting Notice: December 5, 2011

Board Members,

In accordance with the USAPA Constitution and Bylaws, there will be a special meeting of the Board of Pilot Representatives on December 8, 2011, to commence at 0900 and to adjourn at 1700. The meeting will be held at the USAPA offices in Charlotte.

The agenda will include:

Officer Reports
Legal update on Phoenix Declaratory judgment and Charlotte Status Quo action
Report of the Ad Hoc Committee appointed to investigate allegedly improper emails
Action regarding alleged EVP breaches of confidentiality, duties, responsibilities and fiduciary obligations to USAPA

USAPA Communications

 

[prechilill]

So I guess that means if you are furloughed you can't step in front of captains flying the line...

The USAP true believers are really digging their own graves. Enjoy LOA 93, the west tried to help you but I guess you never were open to anything except DOH and no fences. How's that working out for you? $124k a year for Airbus captain, what a crime. You people are and always have been a disease to this profession and the only way to solve our pilot problems is have you all medical out with your bankruptcy contract provisions. Enjoy your 8 hour 2-day trips and stand up overnights.

 

[fifidriver]

Fact and can be easily verified by the training department.

Possibly, this is the fault of the training department. Did they advise us in any distance learning module that the A321 does not in fact have "conventional gear", and landing like a taildragger is not recommended?

 

[USA320Pilot]

BPR Special Meeting Notice: December 5, 2011

Board Members,

In accordance with the USAPA Constitution and Bylaws, there will be a special meeting of the Board of Pilot Representatives on December 8, 2011, to commence at 0900 and to adjourn at 1700. The meeting will be held at the USAPA offices in Charlotte.

The agenda will include:

Officer Reports
Legal update on Phoenix Declaratory judgment and Charlotte Status Quo action
Report of the Ad Hoc Committee appointed to investigate allegedly improper emails
Action regarding alleged EVP breaches of confidentiality, duties, responsibilities and fiduciary obligations to USAPA

USAPA Communications

Randy Mowrey is the VP who Lee Seham has accused of allegedly writing "improper emails". Gary Hummel is the EVP that USAPA has indicated that there is an agenda item for "action regarding alleged EVP breaches of confidentiality, duties, responsibilities and fiduciary obligations to USAPA."

Does anybody ever wonder why managmenet does not respect USAPA, the union loses virtually every court decision except one based on a technicality called "ripeness", US Airways' pilots are the highest union taxed pilots in the entire U.S. and US Airways' pilots have the worst contract? Again, it's not the name on the union door that's the problem. The problem is the union leadership, the people who support the union leadership, and those who elect the same people or same type of people over-and-over again. As we all know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

[Move2CLT]

Possibly, this is the fault of the training department. Did they advise us in any distance learning module that the A321 does not in fact have "conventional gear", and landing like a taildragger is not recommended?

I guess they should have pointed out the bios to the east.

They do have a long history of dragging tails. And what's ironic is the east Check Airmen bet money on how many the west would be dragging as soon as we got them.

Guess how many 321's we've dragged.

That's correct: ZERO.

 

[Pi brat]

I guess they should have pointed out the bios to the east.

They do have a long history of dragging tails. And what's ironic is the east Check Airmen bet money on how many the west would be dragging as soon as we got them.

Guess how many 321's we've dragged.

That's correct: ZERO.

I took your advice and called the training dept and was told your claim is absolutely false. Shocker.