US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

This is the last we heard. I guess he's still trying to find some way to turn the news into another west spanking...

The only thing that is out there is one pilot not on any official committee or having any credible stance saying it. John DuBarry simply put out an e mail saying this, and the West group bought it hook line and sinker. There is NOTHING out.

You'd think he'd get tired of being wrong, but not up to now...

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

Yawn. So what is new today?…. as I have said here, no big moneys from LOA 93. Cannot really “lose” something you never had (ala Nic!) Kind of like sweat equity in a house.. you never really own it if you can’t get it out of a sale (ala LAS and PHX!)

And to top it off, the arbitrator hit the ER, so after almost two years we still won’t know the result of the 3% issue, for a while. That one I predict a win. But only if Parrella has not screwed up by including it in the Kasher case.

So how is my crystal ball working so far?

A win in the Ninth..check
A win at SCOTUS…check
A loss on LOA 93 (excepting the 3% issue)…check

And still to come…

A loss in New York (looks like Cleary is not smart enough to dump that self initiated loser)
A loss in North Carolina (unconfirmed that one is not going to be pursued. Hope that is true)
NAC parked by Christmas (locking myself into a short timeframe here…but it’s coming soon)
And of course Judge Silver’s decision. Who knows, but the case law says anything other than allowing the Company and Union to freely negotiate won’t hold up.

All this talk about guys retiring, going on medical, blah blah blah…not going to happen. With the PBGC paying 65% of their medical pre age 65 these guys could have left years ago, if they had wanted. Nope, guys and gals at the top of the East list are doing just fine..PGCG moneys, Military retirements, good schedules, full sick banks, and getting to strap on the big iron once a week. Beats playing checkers at the retirement home. Nobody here is going anywhere in any great numbers, anytime soon. Don’t get me wrong, this is one prediction I would love to lose.

Can anyone post that entire West Rep accounting of the BPR meeting yesterday, or a link? Thanks, I have enjoyed the snippets.
I would have loved to have seen the looks on the faces of McKee (Mr. one man injunction,) Crimi (Mr. unrepentant union buster), and Ingram (Mr. food cooler by his side) when the LOA 93 loss was announced. I am sure they were planning on celebrating that win along with their character assassination of Cleary’s biggest election opponent. Heard that also did not go too well. Anyone see today the whitewash of that meeting by USAPA comm.? Theuer may be gone, but his legacy lives.

RR

 

[Keroseneuser]

Res, Nic, Fifi, and Move2...

Those were exactly the answers that I expected to see.

It confirms what we have been discussing here. Everybody talks a bunch. In the end though neither side wants a joint contract.

The east does not want it, the west does not want it, and Tempe only wants it if they can get it for free.

I tell you in all honesty. I was on here discussing it just to see what was possible. I do not care if it ever gets worked out.

My prediction? We will continue as is until a merger, or enough retire that it does not matter anymore. Time will tell if I am correct. I told my wife 4 years ago when this mess blew up that we were looking at 5 years minimum before anything was figured out. Getting close to that.

I will welcome the day that a joint contract gets voted in because that means Tempe coughed up enough money to choke a mule! Thats the only way I see it happening. 😀 But I am planning on current conditions until I retire. And that does not bother me in the slightest.

 

[Injunction junction]

Res, Nic, Fifi, and Move2...

Those were exactly the answers that I expected to see.

It confirms what we have been discussing here. Everybody talks a bunch. In the end though neither side wants a joint contract.

The east does not want it, the west does not want it, and Tempe only wants it if they can get it for free.

I tell you in all honesty. I was on here discussing it just to see what was possible. I do not care if it ever gets worked out.

My prediction? We will continue as is until a merger, or enough retire that it does not matter anymore. Time will tell if I am correct. I told my wife 4 years ago when this mess blew up that we were looking at 5 years minimum before anything was figured out. Getting close to that.

I will welcome the day that a joint contract gets voted in because that means Tempe coughed up enough money to choke a mule! Thats the only way I see it happening. 😀 But I am planning on current conditions until I retire. And that does not bother me in the slightest.

I want a joint contract and want it yesterday!! I am NOT and get this part real good my friend I am not willing to get that contract if it means that I have to give the east one more thing more than they have already STOLEN!!! We dont have a contract today because of the east and no other reason. If that is your intent, to somehow get the west to move off a fair final and binding arbitration result then you are wasting bandwith. I can wait for the courts now and the AA marriage to hand the east that major dose of reality and then look out!!

Injunction

 

[cactusboy53]

Res, Nic, Fifi, and Move2...

I will welcome the day that a joint contract gets voted in because that means Tempe coughed up enough money to choke a mule! Thats the only way I see it happening. 😀 But I am planning on current conditions until I retire. And that does not bother me in the slightest.

Finally, a statement that I can agree with.

I'm just spit-ballin' here, but if the company DIDN'T want a contract they would not have filed the declaratory judgement last year (I think they thought that the process would be a little quicker). That coupled with the FACT that Mr. Parker can't utter a sentence without using the words "merger" or "consolidation", makes me think that he is fully prepared to offer WHAT EVER contract it takes to pass by 1 vote.

Here's my prediction: The district court tells LCC that they can do what ever they want, BUT will not be given a PASS if they use a seniority list other than the one that is sitting on Parker's desk (Nicolau). The company attorney has basically states as such in this month's court appearance.

If USAPA wants a contract, USAPA will have NO WHERE to go but to change the CBL's to show an unrestricted Nicolau list as THE SENIORITY list. If USAPA fails to do this, Parker will get the word out that his offer is.........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (just to keep it simple he may offer the AWA contract + whatever wages it takes for us to bite). He will sweeten the offer until USAPA is changed or overthrown.

Parker needs a joint contract done in order to move onto the next merger. If you haven't been paying attention, that is the REALLY next big thing, and DOH is DOA.

 

[cactusboy53]

READY FOR A CHANGE? READY FOR A NEW CONTRACT? GO TO:

WWW.REFORMUSAPA.COM

COMPLETE THE THREE PETITIONS AND SEND THEM INTO THE ADDRESS ON THE FORMS. WITH YOUR HELP, WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT WAITING FOR FURTHER COURT LOSES.

 

[traderjake]

This is the last we heard. I guess he's still trying to find some way to turn the news into another west spanking...



You'd think he'd get tired of being wrong, but not up to now...

Jim

Now, now, just because he doesn't know what he's talking about doesn't mean he's not right.

 

[luvthe9]

Parker needs a joint contract done in order to move onto the next merger. If you haven't been paying attention, that is the REALLY next big thing, .

Yes, you are right and do you think we will give him one? The AMR boys understand the NIC would crush them I think you will see the AMR boys join forces with us to stop any merge.

 

[Move2CLT]

Yes, you are right and do you think we will give him one? The AMR boys understand the NIC would crush them I think you will see the AMR boys join forces with us to stop any merge.

That secret recipe is making you loopy!!

The Nic does nothing to the AMR boys. Your problems aren't there problems.

This next merger will happen with or without us.

 

[Move2CLT]

Yawn. So what is new today?…. as I have said here, no big moneys from LOA 93. Cannot really “lose” something you never had (ala Nic!) Kind of like sweat equity in a house.. you never really own it if you can’t get it out of a sale (ala LAS and PHX!)

And to top it off, the arbitrator hit the ER, so after almost two years we still won’t know the result of the 3% issue, for a while. That one I predict a win. But only if Parrella has not screwed up by including it in the Kasher case.

So how is my crystal ball working so far?

A win in the Ninth..check
A win at SCOTUS…check
A loss on LOA 93 (excepting the 3% issue)…check

And still to come…

A loss in New York (looks like Cleary is not smart enough to dump that self initiated loser)
A loss in North Carolina (unconfirmed that one is not going to be pursued. Hope that is true)
NAC parked by Christmas (locking myself into a short timeframe here…but it’s coming soon)
And of course Judge Silver’s decision. Who knows, but the case law says anything other than allowing the Company and Union to freely negotiate won’t hold up.

All this talk about guys retiring, going on medical, blah blah blah…not going to happen. With the PBGC paying 65% of their medical pre age 65 these guys could have left years ago, if they had wanted. Nope, guys and gals at the top of the East list are doing just fine..PGCG moneys, Military retirements, good schedules, full sick banks, and getting to strap on the big iron once a week. Beats playing checkers at the retirement home. Nobody here is going anywhere in any great numbers, anytime soon. Don’t get me wrong, this is one prediction I would love to lose.

Can anyone post that entire West Rep accounting of the BPR meeting yesterday, or a link? Thanks, I have enjoyed the snippets.
I would have loved to have seen the looks on the faces of McKee (Mr. one man injunction,) Crimi (Mr. unrepentant union buster), and Ingram (Mr. food cooler by his side) when the LOA 93 loss was announced. I am sure they were planning on celebrating that win along with their character assassination of Cleary’s biggest election opponent. Heard that also did not go too well. Anyone see today the whitewash of that meeting by USAPA comm.? Theuer may be gone, but his legacy lives.

RR

You guys lost hope yesterday.

Lots of you easties kept yourselves going because there was a chance for a nice payout and new rates.

That's gone now and your future holds nothing but LOA93. So youve lost alot.

9th and SCOTUS were pushes. Merit v ripeness - learn it. Addington still lives.

And your right, there won't be any huge retirement push.

 

[BLT]

And of course Judge Silver’s decision. Who knows, but the case law says anything other than allowing the Company and Union to freely negotiate won’t hold up.

You are free to negotiate, as long as you don't disadvantage the west in favor of the east, so the Nic will hold up just fine.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Yes, you are right and do you think we will give him one? The AMR boys understand the NIC would crush them I think you will see the AMR boys join forces with us to stop any merge.

You obviously haven't read the Nicolau.

Using Nic methodology (which won't happen because every arbitration turns on its own facts), but for the sake of discourse:

47 777s at AMR to US's zero

All of those crews go to the top of the list....1200 or so. Now we begin ratio integrating:

73 767s to US's 26 or so 767s/A330s

about 3:1, but:

124 757s to 35 or so at US. Let's see...about 3.5:1.

Only then would Nic methodology put AMR and US on equal footing. Nic was highly preferential for widebody flying.

Now, let's look at DOHs:

Most junior Captain at AMR is March '92. So yeah, they'd "love" to have a bunch of East 88, 89 and 90 hires slide right over from bottom F/O to NB captain in lieu of Nic methodology which would put about 1200 of their pilots on the top of the combined list.

 

[Move2CLT]

I tell you in all honesty. I was on here discussing it just to see what was possible. I do not care if it ever gets worked out.

My prediction? We will continue as is until a merger, or enough retire that it does not matter anymore. Time will tell if I am correct. I told my wife 4 years ago when this mess blew up that we were looking at 5 years minimum before anything was figured out. Getting close to that.

I will welcome the day that a joint contract gets voted in because that means Tempe coughed up enough money to choke a mule! Thats the only way I see it happening. 😀 But I am planning on current conditions until I retire. And that does not bother me in the slightest.

it's been worked out. It's just a matter of you accepting it.

 

[traderjake]

Yes, you are right and do you think we will give him one? The AMR boys understand the NIC would crush them I think you will see the AMR boys join forces with us to stop any merge.

There's probably not going to be any merger.

Not because on anything you're going to do, but because USAPA is despised by every other pilot group and the negatives of a merger far outweigh the positives.

With your track record of predictions I'd think you'd wait more than one day before making another one.

 

[A320 Driver]

Agreed. However to make that happen is probably going to mean really pissing off the DOH, and NIC crowd. It will take the middle of the road majority to find something that can be voted in.

I don't see any leadership either in USAPA or AOL that can make it happen. It will take moderates from both sides in office for it to work.

The moderates lack one thing they will never have...control.

Driver...